GP-7/9 Headlights

Burlington has MARS lights on their GP7's, SP also used them.

I believe Western Pacific

@KarlDL posted:

Does anyone know if any railroads equipped their GP-7/9s with any of the oscillating headlights (e.g., Mars, Gyralite), within the standard 2-lamp appliance near the hood roof at each end?  I suspect that the mechanisms of these lights were incompatible with the appliance dimensions/design, but am curious if any road used them.

The Mars brand, and Pyle-National Gyralight brand, of oscillating headlights would have required a separate, individual housing since the twin-motor oscillating mechanism was so large. Railroads such as CB&Q, SP, WP and others would have had that separate housing.

Mars / Gyralight housings were actually fairly common on GP7/9s depending on the specific railroad's practices.  I'd have to go back and check my research from the 3rd Rail run, but I'd say approximately on 1/3 of the roads we did them.  Nickel Plate and Atlantic Coast Line are other ones that come to mind in addition to the ones mentioned.

Thanks to the oracles of Geeps for promptly responding!

Karl,

As mentioned above, the housing for the Mars / Gyralights were add on components as shown in this CBQ GP9.

Note that the standard headlight was moved down as a result.  This was one of the more common applications on GP and SD units.

Other railroads:

Union Pacific had Mars lights on its long-hood-forward GP7's (and SD7's) of 1953.  In 1954, UPRR bought a large order of GP9's, short hood forward and without Mars lights.  (They stopped buying Mars lights for E9's at about the same time.)

Wabash used Gyralites on its GP7/9 units.  Texas & Pacific used Mars lights on its GP7/9/18 units. Soo Line used Gyralites on its boiler-equipped passenger GP7/9 units.  Louisville & Nashville and Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis used Gyralites on their Geeps.  D&RGW did not equip its GP7/9 units, but, starting with GP30's, used Mars lights, switching to Gyralites for its final orders for locomotives before the SP merger.  SP used oscillating headlights on all of its hood units, starting in 1952 -- Mars lights on some and Gyralites on others, on both ends.  Burlington and its subsidiaries Colorado & Southern and Fort Worth & Denver equipped its GP7/9 units, as well as its large fleet of SD7 and SD9 units with Mars lights.  After the big merger, Burlington Northern removed all oscillating headlights.

Shortline Central California Traction bought retired Reading GP7's or GP9's without any oscillating headlights.  They acquired a supply of Mars twin sealed beam headlights from retired steam engines, carefully, individually,  crated and stored by the Burlington and saved for a rainy day.  CCT applied the Mars lights to the short end of each of its Geeps, and I believe that they converted the units to short-hood-forward operation.

Other railroads, such as Delaware & Hudson never owned any GP7 or GP9 units, but applied Gyralites to their later EMD hood units.

@EMD posted:

I believe Western Pacific

Actually, WP did not use oscillating headlights on its GP7 and GP9 units.  Those units had a barrel headlight with an incandescent bulb instead of the twin sealed beam fixture that was standard EMD practice.  It would be easy to think that the  oddball headlight. was an oscillating type, but it actually was just similar to a steam locomotive barrel headlight.

WP stuck with bulb and mirror headlights on all units until the second generation, at which time they started ordering their new locomotives with standard twin sealed beam headlights and Pyle Gyralites.  Only WP passenger F3A and  FP7 units had Mars oscillating headlights and these remained the incandescent bulb style until a couple were replaced in the 1960's.

Just a reminder, the OP's question was whether any railroads used Mars lights in the common GP twin headlight set-up (two smallish headlights, one over the other) with say the top one being a Mars light, and the other a regular headlight. Pretty sure that answer is "NO". As mentioned several railroads added a separate second pair of headlights above or below the standard ones and used one pair or the other for Mars or Gyra-lights. But I don't think any of them split the normal headlights up having one be regular and one a Mars light.

The answer is most definitely no for having an oscillating light in a standard GP or SD headlight.  The housing is too small.  It's not like today where a simple strobe could fit in a standard headlight space.  The Mars and Gyralight systems were mechanically complex and took up some real estate inside the locomotive.  That is why even on F and E units, the headlight was moved into the door with the Mars / Gryralight in the traditional headlight location.  The housing was so large that the door couldn't be opened if the lights were reversed. 

However, the discussion of specific railroad practices is most enlightening.  One of the great things about this hobby is learning just how different the operating and mechanical departments were on the railroads.

A little light reading here and here.

To the OP:

There are no dashes in EMD diesel models. The engine under discussion here is a GP7, not a GP-7.

@Rich Melvin posted:

To the OP:

There are no dashes in EMD diesel models. The engine under discussion here is a GP7, not a GP-7.

Wouldn't a GP-7 represent an EMD / GE hybrid?

@GG1 4877 posted:

Wouldn't a GP-7 represent an EMD / GE hybrid?

No, absolutely NOT!

@Hot Water posted:

No, absolutely NOT!

It couldn't be that bad.  Just imagine an FDL-16 under the hood.

Well then again....let's not.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Wouldn't a GP-7 represent an EMD / GE hybrid?

LOL! Imagine that.

A “Dash 7” GP7, complete with a GE Prime mover.

I can see Hot Water spilling his morning coffee right now!  😉

@Rich Melvin posted:

LOL! Imagine that.

A “Dash 7” GP7, complete with a GE Prime mover.

I can see Hot Water spilling his morning coffee right now!  😉

I'm pretty sure I already gave poor Jack an abnormally aspirated heart.

Tom,

Thanks for the clarification on the WP units.

I'm sure you know, WP ordered high short hood GP20s with the same style of headlight

What about the hood mounted light on some CNW GP7s (technically not a MARS light)?

I believe that the C&NW hood mounted light actually was a Mars figure 8 oscillating headlight, but with a red glass in the bezel, so that they could only display a red oscillating light, requiring opposing trains on adjacent tracks to stop.  When an Emergency air brake application was in effect, either by use of the brake valve or from a brake pipe separation (possible derailment fouling adjacent tracks). For a while in the late 1940's and early 1950's, this practice was in effect on C&NW, but they apparently decided that they could get the same effect with a rule for use in double track territory.

One last question for the Geep brain trust ... were both sealed-beam headlights in each couple activated by one switch or were they separately activated?

@KarlDL posted:

One last question for the Geep brain trust ... were both sealed-beam headlights in each couple activated by one switch

Yes. Front headlight and rear headlight, i.e. two separate switches. There was also a rotary switch for "Dim" and "Bright".

or were they separately activated?

No.

Although it was correctly "GP7", I'm OK with "GP-7". What I don't like (for whatever reason) is when people use "Geep" with the number, like "it was a Geep 7" instead of "it was a Gee Pee 7". I'm OK with "Geep" in a generic context ("was that a Geep or an SD in the lead of that consist?") but for a specific loco type it's "Gee-Pee whatever".

But that's just me.

@wjstix posted:

it's "Gee-Pee whatever".

Seems like I tell myself that every morning around 4:00 am.