Has anybody tethered two Convetional Williams Engines

I think I have thirty second remaining. I believe the intention was to slave another engine with two motors and no reverse unit off of one. They never would be out of sync.

Bill

G  This was the response by 3rail who is the Bachmann guy to another thread. What I had asked for and still don't have a response was conformation of that function.

This was the response from 3rail in another thread

It is a DC output that you can use for another dual motored unit if you want to have a tether connected to another unit.  I don't have the exact specs, but the entire board is rated for 6 amps.  We included this in the original design of the board when were considering making a dual locomotive set with 4 motors.  That project never materialized, but the socket stayed in the design.  We may have some of the connectors in our service department.  Tell them it is the same connector used for the sound board.

Regards,

3rail

Lee I didn't know you were over here. When I called their repair department. Instead of answering the question and let me order the parts I need. They started talking about warrantee issues. I got the feeling they were not happy that information had gotten out. What G did was confirm that slave plug, actual had variable power supply and could be used for that purpose of slaving another engine, something Bachman would not. Just because they left it in did not necessarily mean that it could be used for that function.

So with all that said. 

There are 3 options

1. Slave using the 2 pin connector wired to the motors in the B unit w/o board or 3r pick ups.

2.  Slave using the other 4 pin connector wired to the motors in the B unit w/o board or 3r pick ups with the option of also using the 3r pickups.

3.  Slave by connecting the hot lead from the B unit board to the A unit 3r pick ups. This in effect syncs both boards to operate as one unit. Lee, Wild Mary and other have done this in one form or another.

Doug

Trains America installed a TMCC unit in my Weaver E-8 A unit and it controlled controlled both engines of the Weaver AA set

 Adding 1, A-motor triggered relay, between B e-unit, and rollers(in B) would relieve any amperage concerns. All rollers could then be tied, or not, however you choose. A switch spst* on the B could be used to jump the relay points for normal operation if separated, and tether unplugged. Like for an A-A (ok its a B, pretend its got a yard remote, or its a radio calf).

I think you could do this easily, and retain more of the original design .

Edit: *spst, or an added plug to the roller power that you could plug the tether into!

Bill, LOL.  I was implying the information you posted I stated back on 27Dec. So the news wasn't new. 

The further discussion was on the utility of the connection.   I questioned why it would be needed.  I would have just used the one 4 pin for the Lead A and sent the other 4 pin to the trail A.  No need for the 2 pin, unless they had some other idea (like MTH slave board), because I think 4 385 motors on a 6amp board is pushing a limit, especially if you pull a lot of trains or stall the unit.  G

 When I asked Bachmann about the two pin connector, I was trying to connect a ABBA all powered set with only a one conductor tether using the reversing board in each locomotive. I never got a true answer and then everything I tried to ask or post always got lost. It never crossed my mind to use the pickups from just one unit. 

Adriatic,  G

made some changes and clarified the options. W/O  = without also remember the rest of us are not engineers. Instructions as we would say in the Army must be simple enough for a rock to understand. KIS ( Keep it simple )

Option 1  Motors only.  E Board and 3r pick up rollers removed

Slave using the 2 pin connector wired to the motors in the B unit without board or 3r roller pick ups.

This was the original Williams intent for having the 2 pin as a slave. No board or rollers just motors.

Option 2  Motors only. E Board and 3r pick up rollers removed

Can be configured the same way as option 1. but using the four pin. No need to buy a 2 pin connector from Bachman to fit the board.  This keeps it simple.

Option 3. Motors and 3r roller pick ups only.  E Board removed

  Slave using the other 4 pin connector wired to the motors and 3r pick ups rollers in the B unit "A-motor triggered relay" mounted on B, triggered from any A pins tied directly to the A-motor). The normally open relay points inserted and rollers(in B) would relieve any amperage concerns. All rollers could then be tied, or not, however you choose.

Option 4 Motors , E Board 3r pick up rollers in B Unit removed ,ground still wired to the trucks. (Keep it simple)

  Slave by connecting the hot lead from the B unit board to the A unit 3r roller pick ups. This in effect syncs both boards to operate as one unit. Lee, Wild Mary and other have done this in one form or another.

Option 5. E Board, 3r roller pickups and ground still wired to the trucks.

Slave by connecting the hot lead from the B unit board to the A unit 3r roller pick ups. This in effect syncs both boards to operate as one unit. Lee, Wild Mary and other have done this in one form or another. A switch spst* on the B could be used to jump the relay points for normal operation if separated, and tether unplugged. Like for an A-A (ok its a B, pretend its got a yard remote, or its a radio calf).

 By going to the A pickup(roller) with the B-e-unit trigger(roller wire) you change nothing in logic operation. If by pickup you mean motors pin pickup/ brush / or similar, it is very close to what I describe but the full amps of both are still moving through the A-board your way. My way distributes the heavy amperage better, that's all. It does add the relay power draw to the A boards relay points. Not to much more, not close to 1 motors worth.

 Extra noise filtering of the relay's linear motor coil is the only issue I would foresee encountering. That "filter choice" is better left to one of these engineers. I would "play' my way thru it, if it happened.

Doug

I would not go that route.  Old history with QSI and Lionel's first SSRU was that you could just couple engine together with reverse units and run them as MU.  If at some point an interruption caused one to get out of sync you stopped the train waited 3 secs and all the reverse units would start in fwd allowing you to have them resync'd.  If you wanted to run a unit backwards there were jumpers to allow a unit to restart in reverse, so you could do an F-3 AA for example.

This did require you to watch the train though.  It would be possible for one unit to lose power at a switch or so and get them out of sync.  How many times have you had that happen on a electronic reverse unit train?  Hardly ever because it can hold the direction state through a short duration.

I think what one person recommended is the best:  If you have reverse units in all the power units, just send over the AC power.  This links all the pickup rollers and reverse units.  As long as these are similar engine motors and same mod reverse unit, the will all stay in sync, each reverse unit only drives 2 motors and you shouldn't have any issue at all.

Even if I did not have a reverse unit in the other engine, I would still send AC over to increase continuity of power for the lead A reverse unit.  Still think 6A is not much cushion for 4 motors, but that is only my opinion.  G

 That mod came from Wild Mary. I would think that if all engines are powered. Would be to keep 3r roller pick ups both A units, The 3r roller pickup removed in the B units. Running a tether from a to b. Since the board was designed to run four motors on it, 8 motors would be to much for the one 6 Amp board    I think G could better answer if one wire tied into both A units 3r roller pick ups  would allow all four board (ABBA) to draw power evenly.  In theory It would be correct to power all four boards with one set of roller ups and all the boards would be synced.  Like I said I think G could answer that one better. I would think that if your drawing 4.0 amps each board is actually drawing 1 Amp each.. 

Doug

Doug,

   Actually I have run the Williams GG1 & the Williams E44 Conventional engines in Tandem, via the DCS TR function, making sure both were in the FWD direction as I started.  Remember Williams engines start in the FWD direction, running them both together you could pull stumps with the power, running a freight set up I could never over load the freight car numbers.  However if you are planning to actually tether the engines some rework will definitely be required to match the engines however.

PCRR/Dave

Dave

I have already done the mod running 4 motors off the 6 Amp board as they had designed it to do. I have also done the mod that would sync both 6 Amp boards. Both mods sync all for motors at the same time. This makes it an even better stump puller. I have not had a chance to sit down and diagram the two options that work best without having to use the slave plug tethering the engines togather.  I have been busy being a Soccer Dad now that school has started. I am glad school has started so I can catch up on my sleep. Reality is I have yet to have a chance to take a nap.

Doug

 After a lot of thought, and loosing this thread I'm back (Your other post reminded me Doug). I had come to the conclusion the best route would be "leaving well enough alone" internally other than maybe a tether of rollers for reliability, and maybe matching via added resistance. Other ways to do it, but I don't see it as "broke". I just try to keep my stronger one in front.

Every seems to want to run the "B" off the just the A rollers. Any reason not to use all he rollers connected by a tether (like creating "dead" spots internally, blocks), or did I read into that wrong.

I have been running two Williams dash 9's for the last year.  the only trouble is dirty track once in a while.  If they act up I just clean the track and all is well.  Mine are not tethered.  I did the series wiring mod and reversed the wires on the trailing unit so it starts up in reverse.  They pull awesome.  I am thinking of adding a third one. Jon

I been real busy being a soccer dad lately and the fact of 22 hr days finally caught up to me..I also have finally started my 2nd CB&Q Waycar kit bash (NE1/4) wood Waycar.  

As for the tethering the A and B units.  The plug that is marked for the slave works as designed. I reconfigured and connected the motors to the plug and it worked. I have since rewired it back using the second 4 pin connector with out the 3r rollers or board in the b unit. The amount of amp draw is no more than if I am running one of my MTH diesels with the smoke units on(19-24). 4 motors on one board would be the max. Since the dummy unit upgrade kits comes with a 6 Amp board. The best solution would be to sync both boards by powering them from the A units 3r roller pick ups thus distributing equally the power draw. (with two boards at 2.4 amps, each board is using 1.2 Amps and that is far below the designed capacity of 6 Amps.

An all powered ABBA or ABA as  father dragon was doing would be wired as so

A units would have the 3r rollers pick ups and boards. The B units would have board only. 

A unit( Board 3/R rollers)-wire-B unit(board)-wire-B unit (board)-wire- A unit (board/3 R roller pick ups.) The tether would be connected to both A units rollers providing a continuity of power to all four 6 Amp boards while synchronizing them at the same time. Each unit would have its own common requiring only one wire for the tether(Hot)..  So with the help of G and wild Mary. I was able to confirm without the help from Bachman's tech support the slave function actually works which is what I wanted to know in the first place. I will be doing the death by power point slides tomorrow.

Doug

Doug I'm really happy things worked out for you.  I'm a firm believer in KISS.