Help with Directional Lighting on a Non-Powered F Unit

How do you have the lashup programmed? 4 numbers assembled as a train? Or 1 address? I recall having this problem with a set of FA2s and had to give the rear loco its own number then assemble a train with it facing backwards for the headlight to work right. 

Interesting question as I only programmed the powered A and powered B units in the ABBA “Train”. There is a run/program switch under the dummy A and B units, but I was under the impression their smoke units ran off whatever the lead unit smoke command was set to. I am pretty sure the rear light on the dummy A was constantly on.

There has to be a reason why Lionel would have the switches under the dummy units. I do know the dummy units smoke without being programmed (built) as part of a “Train”. I may have programmed the dummy units at some point in history, I just don’t often run them to recall.

Rich

OK, here is an update. I took the shell off, and to completely remove the shell from the chassis there is a 3 wire connector (longer) and a 2 wire connector (shorter) at the front of the cab that need disconnected. So I couldn't have accidentally switched them. I went and programmed the dummy A and there is no difference. The headlight is on constantly unaffected by direction changes. The only lights that that are affected by changing direction are; the green markers above the number boards go off and the rear light comes on, and vise versa each time the direction button is switched. Its hard to believe the marker and rear light are directional and the headlight isn't. I guess there is something wrong with the board unless someone know of anything else I can try.

Thanks...Rich

You need to program the dummy unit as a separate diesel engine, then build the train.  The light operation sounds like it thinks it's a steam engine.  Try this for the dummy, then build the train.

I don’t understand step 8. I did everything except #8 and now, the markers are green in one direction, and faintly blink red in the other. What does step 8 mean by “Enter 2 for this particular locomotive”? Does it mean Aux 2 instead of Aux 1?

Thanks

Ok, for kicks and giggles, I followed the directions omitting step 7’s Aux 1, and did Aux 2 instead. Now the engine reverted back alternating green marker on one direction, no markers the other. No faintly blinking red.

Note the behavior above is with only the dummy A unit on the track. I didn’t try rebuilding the train until I understand step 8...Thanks

What is the Lionel set # for the whole set?

http://www.lionel.com/products...dmy-a-918-d-6-34513/

Incase link doesn’t work the set number is 6-34513

I have owned 2 of those sets over the years and successful with the light operations.  Each locomotive (powered and non-powered) need to be programmed using their respective Legacy module.  You should have 4 discrete orange modules.  I addressed each loco as A (18), B (19), B (20) and A (21) respectively.  Then I created a Legacy train (18) with all the above locos in the correct direction. All worked well.  Word of warning, this thing pull some amps when it's running with 4 motors, 4 smoke units, and all the lights.

BTW, you will lose functionality of the white "backup" light for each cab when running this configuration but that is by design and some incredible programming that Lionel included.  You should see markers and headlights swap back and forth though. 

Same instructions apply to this set, and you do indeed do them individually.  I'd first go through the whole programming sequence and see if that brings them back to sanity.

If these are anything like several of the other sets, the lights will be a bit wonky when they're in a lash-up.  I know I have the Legacy Lionmaster Conrail SD80's, and the marker lights aren't consistent when you try to run them together in a lash-up.

I've got the NYC #6-34511 F7 set and am having trouble with my lights too. I'd like red markers on the rear A and green on the powered A and when changing direction have Red on powered, green on rear and so on. I'd got each programmed as different numbers and in a train on the legacy remote. 

That's the thing that doesn't work properly on many of these with the older Legacy board set.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the thing that doesn't work properly on many of these with the older Legacy board set.

Is there any way to correct it? 

Redesign the electronics.

On the ones I have, they hard wired the markers to the headlights, so when you're running in a lash-up with one reversed, the markers don't work properly.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Redesign the electronics.

On the ones I have, they hard wired the markers to the headlights, so when you're running in a lash-up with one reversed, the markers don't work properly.

Ah. On mine when I have the rear A set to forward on the remote, it gives me red markers in reverse. When in reverse on the remote, I get green markers/headlight. 

Bi-directional lighting was available before Legacy.   My added kits, which were available from TAS, required programming that involved the Smoke power outlet off a TMCC or EOB board.   The smoke power supply was not used for smoke but reversed polarity with this programming.  

Only flaw was an A A set running the second A unit in reverse.  To get the lights on Both A units to function Green forward and Red Rear, required a swap of the power wires on the second (running backwards) unit. 

Are the aforementioned reprogramming instructions strictly for TMCC or do they also apply to early Legacy?

Can anyone explain what step 8 is referring to?

What is frustrating is the headlight sequence in my ABBA consist worked properly before I took the dummy A shell off (disconnecting the headlight board connectors) to tuneup the smoke unit. The connection plugs and sockets don’t have any obvious issues.

I can try clearing the train, individually reprogramming all 4 units, then rebuilding the train. Understanding step 8 would be helpful if those instructions apply to the Legacy control system.

Step 8 is the feature code for early Legacy Diesels. 1 for steam, 2 for Diesel. Later Legacy doesn't require a feature code.

Have you tried simply programming each engine with the same ID number? Then reverse the wires on the R4LC, assuming this has an R4LC rather than an RCMC, for front light, rear light. Rather than build a lashup just use Engine xx. Thats all I do with my Odyssey ABBBA F units.

Pete

I dropped out of grad school at Michigan so I am not qualified to attempt any of the above.

The instructions that GUNRUNNERJOHN provided were directly from your F7ABA manual.  Therefore they apply to your F7 set.  The step means depress the "2" button on your CAB-2 remote right after pressing AUX1. 

Ok thanks. I’ll have to look into changing the keypad to display numbers. I only see icons. I’ve been running conventional exclusively so its been a while. I’ll also need to download the manual!

Ok, it worked! Headlight goes out and markers turn red! I couldn’t figure how to get to a numeric key pad so I pushed where the 2 should be (walkie talkie icon). It’s time to stage the Cali Zephyr!

Thanks John and everybody for your help and patience. I think senility is setting in

Rich

Smoke Stack Lightnin posted:

Ok, it worked! Headlight goes out and markers turn red! I couldn’t figure how to get to a numeric key pad so I pushed where the 2 should be (walkie talkie icon). It’s time to stage the Cali Zephyr!

Thanks John and everybody for your help and patience. I think senility is setting in

Rich

Did you just reprogram the set? I reprogrammed mine and I only get green markers on powered A and when in reverse, green markers on rear A but no red markers on powered A. I have all three as different numbers and in a train. 

Hi Matt, I followed the instructions GRJ posted, and since there wasn’t a numeric keyboard “2”(step 8) I used the Crew Talk (same position as “2”) icon. When I previously omitted doing this (didn’t see a numeric 2) I got faintly blinking red markers when in reverse. Step 8 made everything right. The dummy A is the only engine I reprogrammed. Then I took the lazy way and without anymore programming and ran the original programmed Train ABBA. All lights on all units are now working perfect.

Rich

Smoke Stack Lightnin posted:

Hi Matt, I followed the instructions GRJ posted, and since there wasn’t a numeric keyboard “2”(step 8) I used the Crew Talk (same position as “2”) icon. When I previously omitted doing this (didn’t see a numeric 2) I got faintly blinking red markers when in reverse. Step 8 made everything right. The dummy A is the only engine I reprogrammed. Then I took the lazy way and without anymore programming and ran the original programmed Train ABBA. All lights on all units are now working perfect.

Rich

Cool! I get red markers on the rear A on power up but not when it's in a train. 

All's well that ends well Rich.

Wish I could get mine working. Heres a quick video. https://youtu.be/8zZ99np8zTg

Matt, as you are well aware something is not right yet but nothing is broke.  The rear A that we watch you program is acting like a single locomotive instead of part of a Train (MPU).  I see that because when you reverse it the white light came on back (between rear A and B).  Additionally your front A is not lighting it's markers correctly either.  All units are independent so there can't be 2 different things wrong.

I would start from scratch.  I would load each unique module 1 by 1 for the A, B and A units.  I prefer to ID each unit separately.  Then reset them one by one.  Next build a train and make sure you are in Legacy mode when you do it.  Make sure to reverse the direction of the rear A unit (not sure if we saw you do that) when you build/program. See how that turns out.     

Part of the original Lash-Up that was part of the TMCC guide that came with a Cab1 Command Base was individual engine programming for a lash-up.  Pages 22 through 27. 

Note that you also had to break a lash-up  Each engine assigned to Tr (Train) 0. which restored individual engine programming.   TR 0 Eng ## Set   Horn or whistle will sound. 

All engines on track with power, front head light on each engine. 

Front engine   TR (# 1 through #9) Eng ##  F (front) Set  Horn or whistle will sound.

Rear engine    TR (# 1 through #9) Eng ##  R (rear)  Set  Horn or whistle will sound.

Rear engine(facing backwards) TR (# 1 through #9) Eng ##  R (rear) DIR  Set  Horn or whistle will sound.

This programming allows front head light in forward, rear(tail) head light in reverse, all other lights off.  Only the front and rear consist couplers will work.  The Consist performs as a single engine. 

Steims posted:

Matt, as you are well aware something is not right yet but nothing is broke.  The rear A that we watch you program is acting like a single locomotive instead of part of a Train (MPU).  I see that because when you reverse it the white light came on back (between rear A and B).  Additionally your front A is not lighting it's markers correctly either.  All units are independent so there can't be 2 different things wrong.

I would start from scratch.  I would load each unique module 1 by 1 for the A, B and A units.  I prefer to ID each unit separately.  Then reset them one by one.  Next build a train and make sure you are in Legacy mode when you do it.  Make sure to reverse the direction of the rear A unit (not sure if we saw you do that) when you build/program. See how that turns out.     

Just reprogrammed each unit and loaded the module. Is this how the lash up should look on the remote? 16 is the pwd A, 8 is B, 6 is rear A. 

No, 6 should have direction changed. 

Steims posted:

No, 6 should have direction changed. 

Just changed it. Still get green markers in reverse no red markers in forward. 

Do couplers respond as expected.?

Steims posted:

Do couplers respond as expected.?

Yes. 

I think I'm just going to have to deal with the lights being incorrect on this one.