Help,I think I fried my Railsounds in my Legacy Ten Wheeler!

At risk of sounding like I'm adding insult to injury, 3 seconds is  a LONG time. I've had numerous derailments with lionel 180w bricks and their breakers pop instantaneously.

Hopefully its an easy fix, I would highly recommend adding another measure of circuit protection, the MRC obviously isn't fast enough.

 For very basic process of elimination.If you have another legacy tender with a similar infra red drawbar design you could put it behind the loco to test whether there is any damage to the loco itself or  if the problem lies just in the tender. You could also place the tender behind another loco as well to test it.

Prior to running any more of your engines you would do well to install TVS' to your layout. They need to be installed on the output of all transformers and inputs and outputs of all electronic accessories like TPC's, ASC's and even Lionel Powermasters. Cost to install them for the average layout is less than $10.00

Some even recommend installed them inside the engines which is also a good idea.

Circuit breakers simply do not provide adequate protection for the electronics in the engines.

For more information read the tech bulletin on surge protection at this web site:

http://www.hirailers.org/

Usually it pops instantly, I am unsure why it took so long to this time!  

I will be ordering some TVS's and installing them ASAP.

I will also try the tender with another locomotive to see if it is the tender.

Jim

So I put my 0-8-0 tender behind the ten wheeler and it worked fine, so whatever is fired is in my tender.  I guess Lionel isn't accepting out of warranty repairs until March.   Oh well. 

I know this has been covered many times but what TVS's do you recommend?  Where can I get them online?

Hay Jim

Do a search with   TVS  all kind of info.

Larry

Jim, the bug must be running around in Michigan. It got me last month. I fried a R2LC board in a similar way.

Ron

I guess so.

I did call Lionel today and they said they could sell me the board but recommended I take it to Wild Bills to have Elmer look at it 1st.  Everything is modular so if he could tell me what board is bad I can just order that from Lionel and replace it myself.  

Jim,

Sorry about your locomotive.

I was just reading up on the TVS' today.  I ordered the following as recommended in some threads.

Select  1.5KE36CA for item number...

http://www.digikey.com/product...E36CALFCT-ND/1530580

While you have them open, install the TVS that Keith mentions, it's good protection for the locomotive electronics.  Even with a TVS on the track feeds, you can still get spikes with a derailment that zap the locomotive electronics.

Jim, open the tender and look at the 2 RS boards.  One is power supply other is Sound card.  See if there is obvious damage on one or the other. 

I just ordered 25 of the 1.5KE36CA-E3/54 from Mouser Electronics. They cost me .36 cents each. I plan on on installing them in all of my locos and tenders that have circuit boards as well as between the transformer and tracks and also my asc's. Pretty cheat protection. http://www.mouser.com/Circuit-Protection/TVS-Diodes-Transient-Voltage-Suppressors/_/N-5g3gZscv7?P=1yzv44x&Keyword=1.5KE36CA&FS=True

No signs of damage to either.  

Circuit breakers have some limits. They might activate immediately the first time but after continued short circuits they can lose there effectiveness.

I recall the electrician that upgraded our electrical panel to 200 AMP service suggested that in the event that one of the circuit breakers in the panel were to activate because of a short circuit that it be replaced because the reliability to react in a similar fashion is compromised.

I'd have to question any electrician that stated that after a single activation you should replace a circuit breaker!  Why doesn't your electrician just install fuses?

To get a UL rating, you have to meet certain performance criteria.  Specifically UL489 specifies full load and no load test cycles 6000 full load and 4000 no load for breakers up to 100A.  This is for panel mounted breakers for power distribution panels, no reason to think others would have wildly different ratings.

Your problem is in the tender as you stated.  A few questions if I may.

1. Does the rear coupler fire?

2. Did you hit AUX-1 then the number 3 on the keypad?

3. Do you have a working backup light?

You have already eliminated a problem with your receiver board by hooking your engine to another tender.

While inside your tender you can swap the Railsounds power board with your other engine and see what you have.

now you guys got me scared..why didnt lionel and other model train co didnt put those and other protection on these systems..would like to know exacty where to install those tvs on the tender and transformer..im running mth z750...just bought a TAS railsound system setup for steam..and i dont want to fry it.going to install it in my 3rd rail PRR S1...Never heard any HO guys with DCC have any proublem with there stuff..when id had my ho with dcc and had some derailments and not harmming the electronics...why is the O gage for fragle and more prone to fry electronics?  Its to the point are they worth having electronic in them or just go back to old school with a simple whistle and reverse unit and be done with it..now its give me on rethinking on maybe go back to HO WITH DCC or CONVERTING MY TRAINS TO DCC systems..?

The coupler does fire, and there is no reverse light on this locomotive.  I can try to swap out boards and see what happens.  

Success, I put in a RS board from one of my 0-8-0 and sounds fire right up.  Called up Lionel and they are shipping me out a board for my ten wheeler, only cost me 65 bucks!  

TVS's are on order and will in installed in on my transformer, and in every locomotive.

WOW 65.oo??  Im ordering a S1 sound board from lionel and cost me 45.00...man that a price difference..they should be all the same price I would think?

Well this is a legacy board, not sure if there is a difference there and it was the total with shipping added.  

Legacy sound boards cost more.

WOW you guys that has the legacy systems,your better have deep pockets!!WOW.I saw this listing on your train but no price..So i'd looked at another one..WOW 79.00!!..The more bells and whistles your train got the more costly the replacements parts are..

Glad to hear you found the solution to your problem Jim! Lionel ships parts fast, this may all be a bad memory by the weekend. Let us know the final outcome.

The part price isn't the worst and its available. I paid $75 for a replacement refigerator drawer that cracked and broke over time.

Your 4-6-0 is way more fun than my refrigerator drawer, and its already cracking again.

I would like for everything in life to be free or cost pennies, but I also understand why most things don't

Glad to hear all is being worked out and the final solution is on the way. I haven't even started my framing let alone wiring, but will have to keep in mind about the TVS's for the layout and the engines.

Jdevleerjr, glad you are up and running.  I run into this often.  The Railsounds power board in Legacy and late TMCC are the same.  I keep a spare RS power board on top of my workbench.  Whenever I run into your problem, it is a quick find to put in the known good board and many times You will score. 

One thing I like about troubleshooting Lionel sounds is the fact you can put a known good tender (Legacy to Legacy) (TMCC to TMCC) behind your locomotive and take the engine out of the mix.  This also works in reverse.  Do not mix and match other manufactures engines and tenders.

Josey, are you talking about your Railsounds audio board or the Railsounds power board.  Two different items.  What board cost $79.00. 

ok ..marty id looked up some lengacy steam engine tender boards..like the prr K4 part number 691RSL1013..and nickel plate 691RSL1017..79.00 for those boards...

So are pretty much all Lionel Legacy RS boards the same?  Could I in theory find a board with a whistle I like and switch the boards on a locomotive that has a whistle I am not too fond on?   I know the chuffing and engine sounds would be different.  

Actually, that board is a Railsounds Lite board, it's not the one that would be found in a Legacy locomotive as a rule.

Josey, your board you are talking about is the newer Railsounds Lite board.  His board is from the earlier Legacy system that uses the R4LC board in the locomotive and the Railsounds Power and audio boards in the tender.  The ten wheeler power board lists for $40.00 plus shipping.  The RS Lite is used in  recent Legacy locomotives  with the newer RCMC board system and RCDR receiver board.

jdevleerjr you could hunt and peck and come up with what you want.  The easiest way is to call Lionel and tell them what you have.  And yes, they will and do sell audio chips to the public.  You need to be using the same RS version to interchange chips. 

I think Lionel will allow a sound chip exchange, not sure if you can pick a different railsounds board.

Your C&O tender parts:

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...84-aa08-09ec3347876b

The NYC tender parts:

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...7f-b07f-b91160aab806

Rick, they will sell you the parts.

marty i was trying to figure why he got charged 65 for his board..Yes I know the power boards are 40 and sound boards are 45..dont think lionels shipping is that much?  I know MTH is 8.00 for shipping some of there stuff..and read threads that lionels shipping is cheaper..Box car bill told me he could get my S1 sound board for 35.00........,...jdevleejr im glad you found your proublem..on the sound..dont blame you..I got some MTH proto1 sound boards ,have them in my s1 and s2..keep changing the sound chips in my s1 because im very picky about the sound..still not happy..thats why im upgrading it..took my T1 soundchip and its in my s2..Dont under stand on lionels like bigboy the sound is off/not wright..mth on the j611 with there new protosound is off too...there videos of most of these trains running and cant understand why they cant get the whistles wright on them!!..Lionel has the best deep chuffs...Marty you said you can by just the chips?

Josey, you need the Railsounds audio board to hold the chips.  Lionel will sell you the needed chips.   Are you looking to clone the 6-38024?  If so, this was a TMCC locomotive and a call to Mike Reagan might get you the needed info to use the TAS board.  Remember, Mike Reagan was TAS.

Yes sir..that what I want to do if possible....marty id sent you email..and pics of that system..

I sent him the installation manual for the TAS SAW.

Marty, AFAIK, Lionel will only sell the boards they have in stock, but they don't sell bare chips.  Am I mis-informed?  Can I buy just bare audio chips?

Lionel will sell the chips.  Send the Lionel product number with your request.

do you need both chips/ I see theres one on the top and bottom of that board..If the price is close the complete board price>> I might as well buy the whole thing then..The system is on it way now..The guy was selling ones with 8 and 6 pin teather on themm.. maybe Id shouldve gotton the 8 pin..But The one Id bought got all the wires and looks to be uncut too...I can tell you more info when it arrives..

That I did not know, I though you could only buy the full boards.  Someone told me that once, but then that could have been a mistake.

Any idea what the chipsets cost?

John the guy had 4 boards sets for sale.. I wanted to call you real badly to get some info from you..but it was 10.30 at night.. and if I dont know the person well.. I dont call them after 10.00pm..if the 8 pin was a TMCC with extra goodies ? Im going to kick my butt on that misstake..John since you got instuctions on the TAS boards.. Can you find out what the 8 pin teather was for?