HHP-8 Rebuild

I keep looking for one of the later ones with the larger motors and cruise control, but so far I haven't found one.

I've fixed a number of these, since the original board isn't available from Lionel, I use the Mini Commander 2 board in them, it drops right in.

I suspect you'll have to rewire the lights to use the Cruise Commander, though the MiniCommander 2 also uses a common ground.

Good luck getting a RS 5.0 or later board without having a trade-in.

Let me know if you want to sell one of those.  As long as it's OK mechanically, I'd probably replace the electronics anyway.

Dead baby hippo's

Patient #1:

Power applied. No motor function. Bell and Horn sound.

Replaced OEM ERR mini with spare. Drive function restored.

Notes: Drive gears bone dry (run without any lubrication). Deposits of brass material on bottom of boogie plate and motor plate (2nd image). Worn drive gear (1st img) on traction tire idler. Center drive gear developed "saw tooth" from improper wear.

John, for quite some time I saw the upgraded units on ebay constantly going for $350+. I havent seen one in at least 2 years.

I'll see about the condition of the others. Two of them I pulled out of their boxes had no shells. Both of them have their electronics removed, but that's fine. I really need the mechanicals anyhow.

You have any suggestions to pull and press these wheels on/off the shafts? I had someone do it on my first one and they charged me 80$ (40 each time).

FWIW, I fixed several of the MiniCommander 2 boards in these by replacing the motor drivers.  The MC2 is underpowered for a full size locomotive with any decent load on it.  The idea of going to the full sized Cruise Commander is a good one.

Indeed, money well spent.

Was there any particular part you're after?

Many times you can support the wheel and pop it out with a punch and a light tap or two with a hammer.  I've seen Harry do this a number of times.  A wheel puller isn't that expensive, a couple of uses and it's more than paid for.  Since I have a place to go with all the tools, it's easier for me.  You can press them back on with a drill press.  Support the opposite side axle and just use the jaws to press the wheel back onto the axle.  I've done that in the past, and it worked quite well.  Obviously, I'd rather have the correct press, but when you don't have them...

Anyone find it ironic that the prototype 656 was also the first HHP-8 to be retired by Amtrak?

---PCJ

(I have one of 'em. Only ran it once, but maybe I should inspect the worm-gears before doing it again) 

Who/what/where do you recommend? I just broke one of the axles trying to press it out (oops).

That actually is quite ironic!

What exactly are you doing when you pull the wheels?  Are you replacing gears?  I can get it done for less than $40/ea, that seems a bit pricy?  That doesn't include parts, I'm assuming you're replacing something in the process.

Patient #2: No drive. Shell scavenged. Electronics scavenged. Wiring intact. Gears hardly worn. Rollers hardly show signs of usage. Screws backed out on leading truck.

Yes, I'd like to pull the gears off to make a dummy unit and fix my first engine I converted by replacing one of the gears.

Also, you cannot set the idler gears with any kind of thread locker unless you pull the wheel off.

John. I found these.

https://www.lionel.com/Custome...mp;resultsPerPage=50

And

https://www.lionel.com/custome...a2-b6ae-80926e1880b1

You can get the motors for the upgraded #664

The trucks have the same part number between them, so you might be able to upgrade one to the larger motors by just dropping in the motors.  I know that I've replaced a number of those small motors in various locomotives, they don't appear to last that long.  I have only replaced a few of the larger motors, they are much more robust as a rule.

The large motors and the Cruise Commander & RS Commander would make that a nice package.

I still have the OE motors on the very first one i did. Still pulls strong. May consider updating one of these at least. What kind of screw holds the motor on? I cannot get it to unscrew.

AFAIK, they're just plain screws.  The ones I worked on all had electrical issues, so I never took the trucks off.  The same flat sided motor (perhaps a different gear) is in a bunch of low-end engines, and I've replaced them a number of times.  There are two screws on the motor, same as most others, but I don't remember the exact motor mount scheme.  It looks like you remove two screws from the inside unlike most diesels.

hello guys and gals........

Is that one of those 2,000 dollars set that came out few years ago ?  Small flat side can motors and brass gears, what was Lionel thinking ? Its a good thing you guys were able to get them for lot less rather than buying them new.

Tiffany

I believe you are talking about the Acella set. Ive seen only ONE actually work in person, with great difficulty. Its a head-turner set. If you want people to your layout, you run one of those. Unfortunately, their cost puts them as museum pieces and they're incredibly delicate.

The engines mentioned are the inexpensive <insert jeering snort> Ready-To-Run sets, and an independent updated unit released later.

Then it appears that the heads of the screws are stripped out on every one of these junkers.

Also, Patient #1 lives thanks to the donor truck from #2. I'll be cutting it's teeth at the club event this weekend.

hello Stone Rhino.......

I stand corrected

Tiffany

Time for the drill and the broken screw remover.

Gee, I've always wanted to get one of these HHP-8's.  I had NO idea they are so problematic.  That is a real letdown.

The cheap ones were... well cheap!  I haven't seen the separate sale one, but it has full RailSounds and cruise control, I'd like to find one of those.

I have one of these HHP 8 engines that was sold separately. It came with the ERR cruise and Railsounds 5.5 factory installed. I love it and it has been trouble free.

That's the one I want, just haven't found one yet.

And a video for those who want something a bit more visible!

Patient #1 is leading with my modified in second. Dropping the cruise into 32-step mode made it near exact speeds. Lash it up and roll!

Now to press out these other gears and wheels to make a dummy set. Toooot!

Looks good!

Very cool project you found! I had no idea those locos were so problematic, but it seems like you've found a way to improve them. Thanks for the video. You've done a real nice job there!!

I bought my son the RTR set when it came out.  He really wanted a bullet train, and it fit the bill.  Could you post photos of the problem screws with arrows to them so I know what to look for on it?  And like others, I have come to love this little locomotive and want one of my own (If you have any extra working ones.).  I found that it perfectly paces my K-Line GG1, so I've used them in a MU to pull a really long train.  It was great fun.

Sure. Give me a day or two as I've had a bit of a house emergency. The drain on my HVAC clogged. It dumped into my cat's litter pan, and then all over the floor. I have a very stinky, icky, BIG mess on my hands as it made it to the subfloor and structural wood.

Sometimes it sucks being unemployed.

Very Nice locos, stone Rhino!  I would love to have one.  Too bad that they are apparently such a pain in the rear!  One would think that, given its tooling investment, it is about time for Lionel to release a "final improvement" edition!

They did release the "improved" separate sale version with larger motors, cruise control, and RailSounds, 6-38402.  I think that was their "improved" version.

Pro-tip: Make sure to snake out the HVAC condensation drains just like any other drain! Don't let your tech leave until he does so or do it yourself!

Good lord what a mess I just cleaned up. I have a floor again, but its unfinished. Who would have thought that three gallons of water could do so much damage.

Should I start a thread dedicated to servicing/upgrading this engine or keep it here?

Well, a very interesting thread, sorry to hear about the various issues with this set.

On the other side of the coin, I have had one of the original engines purchased as part of the Amtrak set from back on 2010/2011, and have run it quite heavily at numerous shows (up to 8 hours at a time), and other than regular grease and oil, it hasn't been a moments bit of trouble.  Must have got lucky I guess (built on a mid-week day instead of Monday or Friday)

Thanks all for the info in the thread however; I will definitely keep a closer eye on it to make sure it keeps working and earning its dues.

I'd say keep it here.

I have this set as well! The O Gauge group I was initially with had hills on their layout and I modded the engine to an ERR Cruise. This allowed it to cope with the hills without supervision (Videos are on the youtube link in my signature!).

The problems all started with that engine when I realized that I'd never run it reversed. So I turned the engine backwards and let it go for about an hour. The amperage on the Z4000 started hitting the 4amp mark. Then instant 8, grinding to a halt, but still spinning wheels. Turning the poor thing over, I spotted the screw backed out and jammed against the wheel flange.

Will do.

Any update on your work on these locomotives?  And I had a question about the lighting circuit on these.  I know the headlights are LEDs, and I noticed this weekend that my son's will light at very low power, less than 3V per the readout on my ZW-C, 1.7V per my Harbor Freight free DMM at the track where the HHP-8 was.  I wanted to know if it is a separate broad, or part of the rest of the direction/sound board.

Sorry for my silence. I have been very busy looking for work, and now finally employed again. Repairs to my mother's truck wiped my cash surplus out, so I havent had time to get another cruise board.

The board that controls the RTR HHP-8 is a modified ERR Mini Commander v2. And when I mean modified, I mean "That boy ain't right" kinda modified. It has three extra outputs that do not match any of Ken's schematics. The front/rear lighting circuits do not behave the same way. There is an additional capacitor field soldered, post production.

To say the least, these LED's will require driving/limiting resistors if you use them with the front/rear light circuits. The cab light is a standard incandescent and can be wired to the "feature" output, set with the appropriate feature code.

My attempts to remove the wheels from the axles has proven disastrous. I destroyed one tool, while the other ripped the flanges off the wheel. These are pressed on stupidly tight, with an incredibly small surface area to press out. My hopes of salvaging these gears is now gone.

I HOPE that in the next month I will be able to get the required hardware to perform the required repairs.

I believe the extra cap was just to aid the power supply in conventional running.  I replaced a couple of the HHP-8 boards with the ERR MC-II as the original board was not available from Lionel.  I don't recall any particular issues, other than transplanting that cap to the new board.  All the lights and sound worked after the transplant, and the folks that got them back were happy with the job.  It was mostly PnP.