Christmas Display Question

GreatNorthern17-

 

It would be very easy to add in a switch to turn the trains on or off; in fact I would suggest an inexpensive 24 hour timer so that the trains would turn on and off automatically, especially if the trains would be running during set times each day.

 

The bigger issue with timers/automatic control has to do with the locomotives themselves. Modern trains (i.e. TMCC/Legacy and DCS-equipped units) startup in neutral, so someone would have to be onsite to get the trains moving at the beginning of the day. If you are running conventional trains (postwar/MPC lionel), then you just have to ensure the reverse units are locked into one direction.

 

Loved the pics of the old switcher - I've cycled past it a few times myself. It's amazing how that whole area was once a very active freight yard.

 

-John

John,

 

Appreciate your input, and I like your idea about the 24 hour timer. I would be running Lionel's Polar Express set conventionally on a simple loop, so hopefully that would simplify the process. 

 

My concern is also speed control. Would the switch be wired to the transformer and if so, would I set the transformer's throttle / lever to the desired power input (speed)? 

 

Mike 

I wired up my displays for the holidays with a motion detector light sensor.

Wired instead of to a light for outside it is wired to a plug.

 

I cover up the light sensor and it just detects motion and turns on the power for the time you set it to run for perhaps a couple of minutes.

 

The trains I took out the e-units engines with DC motors.

I used an old DC power pack with momentum from MRC. Tech 3 model 9600

Set the speed for what I want and set the Momentum switch on.

 

When people walk by the motion detector turns on the power the lights on the layout come on right away. The power slowly increases on the power pack so the engine as a smooth slow start and does not wear the motor and gears out with a fast start.

The flywheel slowly slows down the train when the timer times out and the power is cut.

 

This works very well for automatic activation without having to add a button and gentle starts for the train.

Willams engines are very reliable for regular runners and keep anything away from track that can get caught up.

I have run the Lionel Polar express this way by removing the e-unit just wiring it direct to power pickups for DC power from transformer.

Note the gears wear out quickly on the Lionel model Williams are more reliable.

 

Perhaps put a plastic clear sheet up to prevent kids from throwing things on the track.

 

My layout ran for a few years 12 hour days 7 days a week a month at Christmas season.

 

Also if using the Polar Express train from Lionel I added some snow mix with silver glitter it dries hard white, can get from Michaels.

I added the Hobo car, glued it in place so will not turn over with the snow around and drilled out the fake fire and added some candy clear foil orange with orange and red flashing led bulbs for a fire.

http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/bl-213-f.html

 

Also for the end car I drilled it out and added a bigger red glowing light as in the movie.

Can add the LED bright headlights as well.

 

Mike-

 

Yes, the switch/timer would be placed in between the wall outlet and the transformer's power cord. In order to have the trains start when power is applied, you would have to set the transformer throttle to the desired output. I would suggest putting a tape mark on the transformer just in case the lever is moved by accident. Since you will be running the Polar Express conventionally, I would recommend locking the e-unit so that the unit runs in forward only.

 

Even though the train will operate automatically, you can still wire in a remote whistle/horn button like Lionel's 6-5906 sound activation button so that viewers can trigger the locomotive's sounds if so desired. If your goal is silent operation, foam subroadbed and other vibration dampening materials are essential.

 

I used to set up a small holiday layout (about 7x6) in a busy office, so let me know if I can be of any help.

 

-John

 

 

 

 

This is a very, very important tip, especially if your layout will have a winter theme. Most craft stores sell snow "blankets" or quilt batting to simulate snow, which are more often a curse than a blessing. I'm quite convinced the fibrous material is intentionally manufactured to be eaten by the locomotive and cars, but in all seriousness you will need a buffer zone between the batting and the track. Lionel's FasTrack or a similar track system would be a good choice, as the raised roadbed should be able to keep the fibers away from trains.

 

-John

Appreciate the feedback. I'm quite familiar with the trouble "snow" can cause the train. 

 

Here's the the display from last year. Depending on the space, I plan on keeping everything the same. 

 

Only major difference is I will not be there every day to monitor everything, so I want to keep any potential issues to a minimum. 

 

Mike,

 

I have doing public Christmas displays for over 35 years. And I have done them in a few different ways. Most of the ones that I have done I had staff there to control them. One mall displays that I started a number of years ago I had the security personnel start and stop the displays by master controls that operated the many animated and lighting, with the trains being controlled by transformers which I instructed the security people on there operation.

 

The last public display that I did where I had no real need for a staff to control the display was just over 10 years ago. The display was in a window of a vacant store of a outdoor strip mall. I had everything controlled by a 24 hour timer, everything started at 9 am and it all stopped at 11 pm. I had 2 trains running on 2 levels. And the main selling point of the whole display was The Polar Express. Because very close to this store front was their movie theaters which one of them was going to be showing The Polar Express even though no one including myself had ever seen it since it was not in theaters when I constructed the display.

 

My biggest problem that was looming over me was that I did not have a Polar Express Train set yet even though I had some on order. But I did get them on time to start the display the weekend before Thanksgiving. But trains I had the e-units locked out so they would only go forward. I did have to replace the 1st Polar Express engine just before Christmas but it did not bother me since I had 5 back-ups on hand. Since I had a set of keys to the store I would stop by every 4-5 days to check on things and service the engines. And I really did not have any big problems with it's operation because it was behind locked doors. My biggest fear was the lower level since I only had access from one end since the back of that level was a solid wall from the floor to the top level.

 

Here are some photos of that 2004 Christmas display that everyone enjoyed.

 

Hi Mike,

A train shop owner near me built a holiday display for the lobby at a local hospital. He connected the CW-80 to one of those remotely controlled AC outlets. Whenever a visitor entered or asked to see the trains operate, the receptionist would just use the on\off key fob.

 

That reduced the runtime. He said he had no issues with jackrabbit starts. In fact, he didn't return after the installation until after the holiday season to remove the layout.

 

You could do the same for the lighting circuit.

 

if no one is available, I have found the outdoor rated mechanical timers to be reliable and use them for my exterior holiday lighting. That may require an occasional train check.

 

You can go with optical sensors and relays cheaply from the Asian suppliers on eBay. On when a visitor is proximity for a timed session.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Carl, that is good to know. The "jackrabbit" start was one of my primary concerns. This would also be displayed inside a hospital lobby. 

Straight conventionals locked in forward. early PE and Thomas.

I built a small PE layout a few years ago that has now seen four Christmas holidays of use set in a public place with just an unknowledgable receptionist. As said above, I locked the reverse out. I put the transformer under the layout and put a simple push button to run the train. You have to hold the button down for it to run. Definitely cut down on run time and with it set at a slower speed there were no jackrabbit start/stop problems.

I have been running a holiday display on a "door layout" for about 5 years.  It is set up anywhere from a weekend to over a week, depending on the venue.  Installing some plexiglass sides to keep prying hands away from the trains is a must, or some type of barrier to limit close access.  My layout has doorbell buttons around the perimeter that operate accessories, however I learned that they must be powered by a separate transformer as if all the buttons are pressed at once the train will slow down.  I mount 2 transformers under the table with the voltage fixed to the desired setting and I like to use RMT beeps as they seem to operate at a steady speed throughout the period without having to adjust the voltage and they are easy to swap out for the non-train oriented person that is monitoring the layout.  I keep spares of everything under the table (locomotive, some accessories, transformer) so that they can be swapped out quickly, if necessary.  Keep the track plan simple and add lots of power feeders to limit voltage drop.

 Push a button and the the train or trains will run for a given time. You can do this with relays and timers. The jackrabbit start problem can be eliminated with extra relays.

 

See my blog for circuits. Mars timers,etc.

 

LINK

 

Dale H

 

 

Hey Guys,

 

I wanted to revisit this thread as I will be installing the display in a month. I know Carl (Moonman) mentioned he has had success plugging in the CW-80 into an outlet with an on/off switch and had no problems with the train running. 

 

Would plugging in the CW-80 with the throttle at a particle speed allow for the train to run? Do I simply lock the the train (Polar Express) to forward and keep the throttle up? I'm very familiar with command control, but not as familiar with the "quirks" of conventional. 

 

The display will be setup in a children's hospital and while the staff can operate the layout, I would prefer to have their involvement as minimal as possible. 

 

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, yes that's how it's done. Then the power to the CW-80 needs a way to be switched for the staff.

 

The manual will tell you how to keep it in forward. test it on a short straight from a switched receptacle.

 

keeps the runtime down.

GreatNorthern,

 

I agree a timer is best, however I have a few suggestions since I did this for a few years at the Hyatt Regency in San Francisco for a friend of mine. I had a 24 hour timers set up on 2-3 different loops of track, with no switches.

 

The timers I used had 3-4 setting on them. I did not run any set more than 20 minutes at a time with at least a 1 hour gap between running. You really need someone available to lubricate engine and cars every few days.

 

The reason I say no more than 20 minutes, as if we did anything longer than that we had issues.

 

Good Luck!!

 

JoeG

Even simpler, just run the train off of the programmable accessory taps of the CW. It will power up at your setting until it is reprogrammed.

If you want a pushbutton circuit where a child pushes a button and the train runs for a set time,I may be able to make one up for you. I am not familiar with the taps on a CW. An accessory tap would be needed for the timers. The loco would have to be locked in forward. Is blowing the whistle allowed or does it have to run silently?

 

Dale H

Dale,

 

I appreciate you offering to create the button. If it is something that a novice (like myself) could handle, I would consider making an attempt at it myself. While the whistle would be nice, I think having the train run without would be a better route.

 

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with how an accessory tap would work, so I can not provide any feedback in that regard. 

 

Mike

Mike

 

I can make you a simple off and on timer that you could hook a push button to. I have 2 different timers. Up to 3 minutes duration and up to 8 minutes duration.  Push a button and the event is switched for the time set.

 

I am looking at the CW manual,I am trying to figure out the terminals so I could furnish directions. You would need the accessory tap set at 18 volts to power the timer and relays. Anyone with this transformer is the A common and U go to the center rail?

 

 

This diagram is just WRONG. Using this wiring, the whistle will activate the bell. It is, however, accurate for units built before the "G" date code with regard to common ground wiring.

GN17,

   Take Bill Hennings advise, it works well and is safe, especially for children.  Oh one more thing, never refer to a Christmas Train layout as a Holiday layout, it's Christmas we celebrate.  Political correctness is for socialists who live in other countries and do not get to live under the freedom our brave men and ladies have provided, with their very lives.

We celebrate Christmas in this the Greatest of all Christian Countries.  

PCRR/Dave

Dale,

 

My CW has the same setup. 4 terminals, 2 red and 2 black. 1 red is for track (A) and the other red is for accessory (B). Both blacks are marked (U). 

PCRR, 

 

Revisions have been made in regards to the topic name. 

All CWs were made this way.

Rob

 

I am still confused. Is the U common or is the A? I made up the circuit but dont want to give Mike the wrong wiring diagram.

 

Mike,I have the circuit almost made up and bench tested on a KW. It is based on these timer circuits. Push a button and time an event (in this case the train) up to 8 minutes with an adjustable marked pot. I made up a few of these long ago for a guy doing a Ronald McDonald House and they worked out well.

 

LINK

 

The relay and timers will be powered off the 18VAC accessory tap of the CW. (B-U,polarity not important).  A relay contact will switch power to the center rail of the track. I think it is the "A" terminal,but the wrong drawing is confusing. I have a CW somewhere but never used it. I will dig it out and test it. 

 

In addition I am adding 2 relays and some rectifiers so that the train will start and stop at 4 volts less than the transformer setting,(about 4 seconds delay). This soft start and stop should save some wear and tear on the engine. Please Email me your address,I can send out when it is finished. My address is in my profile.

 

Dale H

 

 

 

 

dale, he can get close to 18v on the Accessory posts. If it's not a G code, then he has to reverse the leads. It also should be separate from any track voltage.

 

So, it's cool.

The problem is, it depends.

 

CWs made up until the "G" date code versions have the "A" & "B" red posts common, with "A" connected to the center rail you will get "whistle" with the whistle button. Wired as per your diagram above("U" to center rail), you will get "bell" with the whistle button.

 

CWs made with the "G" date code and later versions have the "U" black posts common, and still, though, with "A" connected to the center rail you will get "whistle" with the whistle button and as wired as per your diagram above, you will get "bell" with the whistle button.

Here is the board I made up. If Mike sends me his address I will send it out to him gratis. Click on photo to enlarge.

 

 

 

A simple on off circuit would only use 2 relays. Adding 2 more relays,2 capacitors and some bridge rectifiers creates a rudimentary soft start,stop system. After the button is pushed, the train will start at 4 volts below throttle, then in about 4 seconds receive full throttle. When it times out (set by the pot up to 8 minutes),it will receive 4 seconds of reduced throttle before power is removed. 

 

There are 4 relays here,the first is 2, 12VDC ones wired in series to make a 4PDT one. The other 3 are 12VDC with a resistor in series to cut voltage from the 24VDC input. 18 VAC from the CW becomes 24VDC power supply in for the relays and timer. The relays are PC mount glued upside down. They are NAIS SP2 models, DPDT with 15 amp contacts. Excellent low power usage,high switch capacity which makes the timing capacitors more effective.

 

The system uses about 4 watts of power.

 

Dale H

Sorry for the delayed response, it's been a busy week. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input on this. It really has helped me in planning the functionality of the display.

 

Dale,

 

You outdid yourself putting together this board. You did not need to this, and I really do appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Would the track and button wires get connected to the terminal strip in the top left corner of the board?

Middle 2 on the top right marked "PB".  Use any paired wire,any gauge,as long as you want and attach to 2 leads of a pushbutton. A doorbell button would work. It has to carry very little current. I need your shipping address,there is no Email address in your profile. My address is in my profile.

 

There are 6 screw terminals on the top right. Click on the photo and it should enlarge for better detail.

 

Top is track power in,the A terminal of the CW. I would us at least 16 gauge wire for this. You could cut the ends off a household extension cord for cheap wire.

 

2nd from top is out to the center rail. If the layout is large you may want to tap the center rail in a few places to distribute voltage. Again 16 gauge or better.

 

3,4  from top is the push button, as noted previously, polarity unimportant.

 

5,6 is the relay power B-U on the CW,polarity not important,set at 18 volts.. It goes to a bridge rectifier and capacitor which provides filtered DC to work the relays and timer.

 

The running time is set by the Mars module,top left. There is a marked pot in the middle of it.

 

Like anything electronic it can fail but the components are all industrial quality. Dont be fooled how the relays look,they are excellent quality,overkill for the application,but their low power usage makes the timing capacitors perform better.  The 2 capacitors on the bottom are timing capacitors. The 4700 uf will hold in the coil from 4 to 5 seconds,allowing for reduced voltage on starts and stops.  It should work for you, I tested it on a CW on the bench but not running a train loop that I dug up on my shelf. The board will work with most any transformer as long as it has an 18 volt accessory tap to power the relays. You might want to copy the above directions,in case this post gets deleted.

 

Dale H

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I meant top right, don't know why I said top left...Just sent you an email. 

Nice work Dale!

Hello everyone.

 

For starters, I want to thank Dale for going out of his way to build a board for me. It saved me a lot of time and potential frustration as I take my first attempt at a public layout. 

 

Now with the train power all taken care of (thanks to Dale), I have one more question. I will be running the Polar Express on a basic loop. As the train approaches the back of the layout (not easily accessible), I have several "platforms" installed to protect the track and train. As I am sure many of you are aware of, the Polar Express baggage cars (and I'm not talking about legacy) do not have much weight to them. 

 

Since I will not be there to operate the train 95% of the time, I want to make the layout as "derail-proof" as possible. Would adding weight to the baggage cars help the train stay on the track? And if so, will the engine be able to accommodate the weight change.

 

I have included last year's video (the music got removed...) as a reference to the track plan. I am most concerned with the two turns. 

 

Any input and advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you,

Mike 

 

 

 

I am not sure adding weight is the answer. Added weight could actually make it top heavy and more prone to turning over on curves. The added inertia can slam couplers.  If there are no turnouts on the track derailment should not be an issue. The soft stop and start system should help as it avoids very abrupt speed changes.   If need be the train could be made to run slower on curves but if the top speed is reasonable it should not be necessary.

 

I dont know the track system you are using,but some track systems offers re railers like in HO. Perhaps others have suggestions,I do not have the Polar Express train.

 

You may want to convert the passenger cars to LED lighting.

 

Dale H

Great Northern, where did you get the Ceramic Harley stuff From?

All the Ceramic Harley is from Department 56, Snow Village specifically. Those are two of the older buildings. They have since produced a lot more new buildings and accessories. 

GN17,

I was able to get 3M flexible wheel weight tape from my brother that operates a large auto repair shop. The gap in the frame rails under the PE cars provides a great place to add some weight with the center of gravity down near the trucks.

 

I brought mine close to the NMRA standards and find that they track very nicely now.

 

You may not even have to add that much weight.