HOMASOTE !! TO BE OR NOT TO BE

go to your local home center like lowes or home depot and buy blue or pink foam insulation 4 X 8 sheets 1" to 4"  easy to work with..holds drywall screws and light weight..support with 1 X 3 wooden frames on 16" to 24" centers..also gives "clickity clack" sounds some depth...cuts with a utility knife and can be stacked or cut for risers..of any degree incline...

There are several posts going on right now. Do a search for homasote and quietbrace.

I used homasote on my layout and our club layout.

homasote or not, is a personal preference

like many other aspects in our hobby.

don't let the naysayers get you down.

If you want to go with homasote, go for it.

there was a nice article I a past Classic Toy Trains

magazine that addressed that exact issue.

I personally don't like homasote, but of course Im

not building your layout.

you build what you like, I build what I like and

everybodies happy.

Keep playin with trains and

run em fast and furious

You need to find yourself a new local hobby shop because they have no idea what they are talking about. I have put down close to 3500 feet of gargraves track and it is all laid on top of homasote, the majority of it being screwed down to the homasote.

True, some people prefer the look of a manufactured roadbed, but it has nothing to do with how well the track is secured.

I have used and still use homesote on my layout and have built two other layouts using homesote.  I have screwed drywall screws as well as half inch number 4 srcews for Lionel 0-27 track without having anything ever shift or the screws coming loose.  Great stuff and have it mounted to just 2x4s, sixteen inches apart.  Never had any problems with it. I bought it about 15 years ago for about 10 bucks a sheet.

Homasote is virtually to get near me, so I have to use other things

Homasote is pretty dense so it will hold track screws very well.

Rick

Hi Folks,

     The one big mistake I made when building my layout was in not using Homasote.  Sometimes the noise is deafening because I laid track directly on OSB.   Once while running my trains, my former neighbor was trying to get me when his aged mother had fallen down a flight of stairs, and I couldn't hear him knocking on the door or ringing the doorbell, and then barely heard the phone ring when one train came to an automatic stop. 

     Homasote does hold screws, especially strong if you add a dab of white glue in the pilot hole.

     My father had used Homasote for our Christmas layout (Christmas Garden) when I was very young back in the late 1950s.

       I'd go with the Homasote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care, Joe.

Menards hee in Indiana has sheets of Homasote for about half the cost of plywood.

dave

Homasote can't be beat.  I use it in a slightly unusual way.  I cut the track pattern cookie-cutter style with bevelled edges, and then glue ballast to the Homasote:

I have always used Homosote, and it holds both screws and nails well. Just don't cut it in your house; it is "dirty".

Homosote is an excellent material to cover the plywood. It deadens the sound and holds the screws. The layout will still be plenty noisy enough for most. I would not just put homosote over bracing if you are planning on crawling on top of the layout. One mistake I made was not overlapping the plywood seams with the homosote. I put a 4x8 homosote on a 4x8 plywood and gave up the benefit of the homosote smoothing out the layout top wherJoints joints are.

Ed

Go with Homasote, just cut it outside if at all possible, it makes cutting lumber with a power saw look clean by comparison! It holds screws fine just don't go all the way thru into the plywood underlayment and the sound won't be as bad. Train noise is fine but a large layouts with several trains running are only music to our ears, the family might not be so understanding.

Jerry

Marshelangelo,

I just started laying Homasote, and can cut it in the basement. I rough cut it with a utility knife just like Sheetrock. Several lighter cuts, and then snap it off. I follow up with a flush trim bit in a router, and use a shop vac as I go. The dust is minimal. The Homasote holds screws just fine. As stated above, it's personal preference, but I think it will be worth it in the end. 

Andy

Whether homasote or blue/pink insulation, I recommend using something. My last track was laid directly on plywood. Anyone coming to the house liked the layout, but because of the noise, they couldn't hear the engines that well or carry on a conversation. It was as your LHS described, "hearing the train go down the tracks". I'm using homasote on my current layout and now I get both: Quiet overall, and I can hear the trains! Terry

Go for homasote, it is the best balance of low noise strength and appearance.

I am using homasote, I used it when I was a 3 railer and I am still using it now that I am a 2 railer and all my track is hand laid and none of my track has moved, none of my spikes have come loose so I would say whomever you spoke with needs to further their education as they do not know what they are talking about.

I used homosote on my HO layout..it works fine, but the pink and blue insulation boards work as well and are easier to cut  and lighter to work with...but it is a personal choice..as far as strength my son locked his self out of the house and climbed through a basement window and across the layout...and he was about 12 and weighed about 150# he was almost 6 feet tall....(now he is 6' 7" and weighs about 230")

I used homasote on my layout.  It has fantastic sound deadening qualities also no problems with attaching screws to it.  The only drawback, as others have noted, is it should be cut outside. 

If you use this, be sure to strip the plastic sheet (moisture barrier) from the side of the sheet to be glued.  Otherwise glue will not hold.  Of course, barrier should be stripped from top side also for better appearance.

Homaboard 440 is excellent; moisture resistant and less dust for some reason than the "other" homasote I've purchased.

Worked great for the CL&W on the girder benchwork.

Using homasote is not just for sound, but ease of attaching other things to the surface as well, and adding height to your track by creating that roadbed above the ground surface.

We didn't use screws to mount our track, we used 18 ga brads so there's no screw heads showing anywhere. The brads hold just fine, and are easily pulled back out if you need to move the track.

You can use a smooth "knife edge" blad in your jigsaw to cut it with hardly any dust. You still will want to do it outside, but it leaves a LOT less dust than a standard "tooth" stall blade. It just takes a little longer to "slice" through it.  

Personally I have used foam based roadbed in the past instead and it has worked fine without all the mess and labor involved in the alternative.

My own experience has been is to avoid over anchoring the track and let it float as much as possible as the screws if driven too deeply or too often resonate the plywood. I use contact cement.

My folding table layout uses carpet padding to do the same thing.

I have a little tradition:

Whenever I start a new layout, I always begin with two bolt-together Homasote platform sections that my father had made in 1957 to go with my first Lionel train set (#2297WS -- with the N&W #746.  They bought the set on Christmas eve for half-price:  $49.95).  Those sheets of Homasote have been the heart of four layouts, so far.

Yes, I still have the train, too.

A slight diversion, please: has anybody used a Dremel Multimate or other oscilating tool to cut homosote? I'm wondering if it might produce less mess?

I cut Homosote on site occasionally using a shop vac hose immediately at the blade.  Start with a clean filter each time.

Also do hand slicing with a Crane Airway #6 straight blade for straight and curved slices. 

Saw cutting without a vac inside is not wise.

I used Homasote for making the roadbed for my layout as opposed to covering everything over with it. 

I cut a good bit using knife blades in a sabre saw, but that got old real fast.

I ended up using my bandsaw (inside the shop inside the house!) set at a 45 degree angle and cut better than 1/2 of it that way far faster than any other method I tried.  Not only that, but the mess was minimal (Shop Vac on the band saw) and the bevel was nicely polished smooth. 

Glued and screwed the roadbed down and a day later took out the screws.  Hand laid ties and rail directly on top of that and after ballasting, it's solid as a rock.  And, solid w/o the ability to vibrate is quiet.  All I ever hear is the train running and the wheels clicking on the joints I put into the rail.

I love this perspective!   It never ceases to amaze me how much credit is given to a nail or screw in holding track down.  Last time I walked a section of real railroad track I don't recall a single nail or screw....gigantic in proportion to the hobbyist's perspective of what's required!...to hold the track down. 

To hold my layout track down I use gravity.  It's free, too!  It works well, doesn't change over time, never rusts, never loosens its 'grip', and it doesn't require any special installation tools or post-installation disguise. 

On the other hand, to keep track from shifting side-to-side...well, that's a different matter.  Now THERE's the reason to employ an appropriate mechanical fastener, adhesive, or....as the 1:1 guys know...ballast rock.

Which takes me back to the guy at the hobby shop and his perspective on fastening track to "cardboard".  Homosote, a 'paper', or cellulose, product is fine for grabbing something to keep track from shifting side-to-side.  A nail (brad) would be my choice, but a coarse-thread screw about one inch long would be more than adequate.   If you use a screw, be careful when running it into the Homosote: Since it's only....."cardboard"...you can overdrive and 'strip the grip' quite easily. 

One of the concerns often mentioned re Homosote on layouts is its potential for instability in a high-humidity environment.  After all, it's just...."cardboard".  Now, before everyone who's a fan of Homosote gets their shorts in a knot over this caveat, I will say that I used Homosote on an HO layout 50 years ago in my home in Washington, D.C.,...not a particularly 'dry' climate town...and had nary a problem related to humidity.  More recently, in hearing layout-tales from behind the counter at the LHS for the past 15+years, I can recall only one (1) tale of frustration with buckling/warping of Homosote roadbed on a fellow's HO layout.  If you plan on doing some scenicking on the Homosote...you know, copious amounts of water-based paints and adhesives to color and bond...you might want to seal the surface first with something like Zinsser's B-I-N Primer/Sealer (shellac-type product), available at most home improvement and paint stores.

Until Menard's hit town, Homosote was a bit tough to find.  Only one large local lumber yard was willing to order the stuff in, prepaid; and if you didn't order a full wrapped and banded pallet's worth, they would not guarantee the delivered quality of loose sheets!  Many other local yards and home improvement store 'experts' often had no idea what the stuff was in the first place!!

BTW, if your layout will, from time-to-time, achieve verticality in temporary storage, track fasteners will have quite a different set of criteria.  'Down', and gravity's contribution to it, will change everything.

So there ya go....more data for cogitation and rumination than you probably ever wanted!

Yep, good ol' gravity.  Hey, it's useful for now.  But someday, after my last breath, it'll have no grip on me!

KD

My track and switches are Atlas O and I used Atlas O track screws to secure everything to the homasote.  I then used Brennan's ballast which was mixed in a solution of water, dish detergent and scenic cement.  Five years now and no problems. 

Hi, I used the homosote without any problems other than the aforementioned dust from cutting. I also considered the foam, but decided against it because of a fire concern, althought I don't know if it is very flammable or if it just gives off a noxious smoke if burned. It is possible that I looked at the wrong stuff, but as I recall it was to be used outside the home only as an insulating underpayment for siding.

used woodland scenics roadbed on plywood with Atlas track over large portion. Elevated sections was done as a spline of scrap pine from home depot extras bin with woodland scenics roadbed

Also to dissipate sound the layout was tied into the frame of house.

Very quiet except for sound going over joiners. Didn't really like homosote ( used it on friends layout), but its certainly a personal preference. I laid track out first with all feeders, then just slid woodland scenics under track, making v cuts as necessary. You can do about 20 ft in five minutes.  After you have it arranged screw track in place until you ballast it. Always drill pilot hole before screwing track down otherwise it will strip screws going into plywood

I will again add an alternative:

Celotex Soundstop.

It is not as strong as homosote, but just as messy to cut unless you use a knife blade, not a toothed blade.

BUT, it stops even more sound and costs less.

And it's available in places that don't carry homosote.

now, about those guys in the hobby shop. They can have their love of rail noise, obviously they run Post War trains with no sounds in them.

I'll stick with my sound enabled command control trains.

Ditto, ditto

We tried Celotex cause it was cheaper. Well we got what we paid for..hated it, went back to Homasote.

This arguement/discussion will go on til the end of time. Some people are dead set on using Homasote, while others are dead set on using something else. Not one of them will eliminate all the sound, nor should they. Have you ever stood next to the tracks while a train went by? Was it very quiet?  

Agreed, Some track noise is to be expected. I just want to hear the engine over it.

I will note you can also stuff foam in the enclosed cars to muzzle sounds.

The cars transmit as much noise as the track.

This was proven by a member with actual sound recording and measuring equipment a while back.

Other items that help:

Carpet under the layout

A heavy cloth curtain along the edge of the layout.

I used a product called fiberboard. It's about 1/4 the cost of homosote and does the job. It is easier to cut than homosote. It is a dark brown in color which makes landscaping easier. I used drywall screws to attach it to the plywood and Atlas screws to hold down my Atlas track. My layout is about 7 years old and I have had no problems at all with it. Others swear by homosote. I used it on my last layout but I find that fiberboard is a better choice for me.

Still am amazed that some of you will spend $500 to $2,000 for a locomotive and seem to think nothing of having both DCS and TMCC systems, yet don't want to spend $25 a sheet for a product that has been used successfully for about 60 years by thousands of model railroaders.

jackson