How do you think MTH trains changed the O gauge market?

After every revolution, there is a conservative counter-revolution...

Williams was making 3-rail O gauge throughout the '80s, although it took until '87 or so for quality and robustness to approach the better Lionel stuff.  Williams stepped out around 1990, and Weaver took over the relationship with Samhongsa.  With help from small players like Right-of-Way and 3rd Rail, by 1992 there was a decent variety of 3-rail brass.  As far as I know, Mike Wolf was a retailer, and had little to do with making or importing these locos.

MTH began selling O gauge under their own label in '93.  Although many items were scale-proportioned, the engineering design was toy-like, and in some ways a step backwards from what Williams, Weaver, and 3rd Rail had been doing.  Gear ratios were straight out of the Fisher Price aisle, and early Premier steam didn't coast well at all.  Their diesels lacked the realistic fixed pilots or single-digit scale speeds of the Weaver Ultra Line or Red Caboose GP9.  So yes there was a contribution, but also a lost opportunity.  After several years, HO, G scale, and even S-gauge still had better-engineered, more realistic, more affordable mass-produced models.  Instead of continuing the "revolution of realism" begun by Weaver and even Atlas with its excellent SW switcher, MTH opted to design for producibility, not necessarily realism or ultimate performance.  These were more affordable but still high-priced, and operationally, still very much toy trains.

Circa 2011, MTH turned away from North American 'O', and shifted its product development focus to HO scale.  What's ironic is that their HO steam locos were "made right" from day one, embracing best accepted engineering practices.  Split chassis with a "bottom plate," replaceable wheels and axles, an optional non-rubber-tired wheelset in the box, etc.  They obviously had the know-how.  Yet in fifteen years, they never saw fit to retool and incorporate these improvements into their O scale product lineup.

This post may be perceived as critical.  I don't hate MTH, and I'm not partial to any one brand.  But as someone who lived through this era and spent some of my first paychecks on early MTH products, I'm trying to bring some objectivity to this thread.  My mind is open, but my wallet generally isn't, until someone builds a "better mousetrap."  I'm impressed by quality engineering and built-in performance, not failure-prone gimmicks or tack-on features. Big, quality motors. Low gear ratios--30:1 or bust!  Big flywheels or back-drivable gears with plenty of coasting.  Everything easily replaceable, customizable, and upgradeable.  Parts-is-parts: put an exploded diagram on the web, and sell me as many as I want!  Run 'em till the dies fold, none of that "limited production" collector B.S.

The opportunity is still there... The ultimate O gauge trains haven't been produced yet!  Google some parts diagrams for the American Models 4-6-2, or look under the hood of one of their S-gauge diesels.  Heck, look at a US Hobbies 2-rail loco from the 1960s.  First one that builds a semi-scale loco like this gets my money!  So which one of you is the next Mike Wolf!?

Ted S posted:

As far as I know, Mike Wolf was a retailer, and had little to do with making or importing these locos.

 

I think you are wrong about this point, but if you see them, ask Andy or Rich. They are pretty straight shooters and would probably tell you straight up what their involvement was.

Many local friends were regulars at the shop during that time and I was as well. I don't think any of the locals I knew thought anything other than that the guys at MTH were very involved with what happened with Samhongsa and Weaver, even before 1993.

Ted S posted:

After every revolution, there is a conservative counter-revolution...

Williams was making 3-rail O gauge throughout the '80s, although it took until '87 or so for quality and robustness to approach the better Lionel stuff.  Williams stepped out around 1990, and Weaver took over the relationship with Samhongsa.  With help from small players like Right-of-Way and 3rd Rail, by 1992 there was a decent variety of 3-rail brass.  As far as I know, Mike Wolf was a retailer, and had little to do with making or importing these locos.

MTH began selling O gauge under their own label in '93.  Although many items were scale-proportioned, the engineering design was toy-like, and in some ways a step backwards from what Williams, Weaver, and 3rd Rail had been doing.  Gear ratios were straight out of the Fisher Price aisle, and early Premier steam didn't coast well at all.  Their diesels lacked the realistic fixed pilots or single-digit scale speeds of the Weaver Ultra Line or Red Caboose GP9.  So yes there was a contribution, but also a lost opportunity.  After several years, HO, G scale, and even S-gauge still had better-engineered, more realistic, more affordable mass-produced models.  Instead of continuing the "revolution of realism" begun by Weaver and even Atlas with its excellent SW switcher, MTH opted to design for producibility, not necessarily realism or ultimate performance.  These were more affordable but still high-priced, and operationally, still very much toy trains.

Circa 2011, MTH turned away from North American 'O', and shifted its product development focus to HO scale.  What's ironic is that their HO steam locos were "made right" from day one, embracing best accepted engineering practices.  Split chassis with a "bottom plate," replaceable wheels and axles, an optional non-rubber-tired wheelset in the box, etc.  They obviously had the know-how.  Yet in fifteen years, they never saw fit to retool and incorporate these improvements into their O scale product lineup.

This post may be perceived as critical.  I don't hate MTH, and I'm not partial to any one brand.  But as someone who lived through this era and spent some of my first paychecks on early MTH products, I'm trying to bring some objectivity to this thread.  My mind is open, but my wallet generally isn't, until someone builds a "better mousetrap."  I'm impressed by quality engineering and built-in performance, not failure-prone gimmicks or tack-on features. Big, quality motors. Low gear ratios--30:1 or bust!  Big flywheels or back-drivable gears with plenty of coasting.  Everything easily replaceable, customizable, and upgradeable.  Parts-is-parts: put an exploded diagram on the web, and sell me as many as I want!  Run 'em till the dies fold, none of that "limited production" collector B.S.

The opportunity is still there... The ultimate O gauge trains haven't been produced yet!  Google some parts diagrams for the American Models 4-6-2, or look under the hood of one of their S-gauge diesels.  Heck, look at a US Hobbies 2-rail loco from the 1960s.  First one that builds a semi-scale loco like this gets my money!  So which one of you is the next Mike Wolf!?

Sorry but I do not see your point here.MTH did a lot for the o gauge market.And Mr Wolf started working putting trains together working for williams trains.I happen to own a few of the first locomotives.And they are still operating pretty good.I never had any problems with locomotives not coasting.And I am sorry but I had one of my MTH locomotives head light stopped working.I went on line found a diagram on their website.I did the work my self and got the headlight fixed.The railking has always been upgradeable.Their are a few here who have done so.Using upgrades from MTH and some have installed upgrades from the electric rail road.On I have had to replace a traction tire one in a while.But as far as any thing breaking gear wise.Nothing yet and it been over ten years.Now here I used to be in h.o. but my eyes decided they no longer liked ho trains.So I went up in gauge and I never looked back.And I get the thing with the pay check.But seeing I wanted bigger trains.And MTH meet me half way money wise.The people at MTH work hard to put out good trains.Because if they did not they would not have gotten to this point.To where to give a big company a run for its money.Yes they have made a few miss steps but every company has.

Simply put, MTH put products out there that were every bit as good, and sometimes better than Lionel, which at the time, was content to rest on their laurels and kept recycling offerings using their existing tooling.  MTH forced Lionel to step up their game and actually compete for our O gauge dollars.  Thanks to Mike Wolf, we now have the huge array of O gauge product out there that IMO we wouldn't have otherwise.  Personally, I would not have the collection that I have now if it weren't for Mike Wolf, as MTH offered quality O gauge trains in the road names that I was interested in.  Thanks, Mike!

No question that competition improves the game for everybody.  The MTH competition has meant that Lionel had to innovate, and we consumers ultimately had more product to choose from. 

Lionel's image of quality but at a high, premium price goes back to the postwar and 1950's period when the competition's niche then (Marx) was generally lower prices, but with less detail.   At the time- there was other competition -American Flyer (more realistic 2-rail) , and the increasing popularity of HO as a more space-friendly size, and as being more realistic scale vs. approximately scale as well. 

MTH came to the market with equal or better detail, and at a generally lower price, maybe through and due to building product in Asia.   If so, Asian sourcing was a decision forced on everybody by the MTH competition, and has meant lower prices, and lower prices even with added features. It meant that Lionel had to go to Korea and China for product instead of simply re-issuing the postwar products as they did through the MPC and Kughn eras. 

However, IF Lionel had not been using the same manufacturers, from a small base of manufacturers as MTH- then the situation that resulted in the lawsuit, the legal battle and bad blood in the industry would not have happened. 

So you could argue that the current situation of the industry being controlled to a degree by the Chinese and Korean manufacturers as another result of the MTH competition.  This is inconvenient, or a disaster depending on your point of view.  Tooling that lasts for years, under the control of the Chinese, means that it is very costly to be flexible in your sourcing, and to change sources when market conditions (like tariffs) indicate you should.

I would summarize it as, WE have more choices of products at higher quality and with more features.  A win for the consumer.

But the model train and hobby industry is enslaved to the Chinese government.  They control the sources- and (I understand) that Lionel (I don't know about MTH) cannot buy train parts from the Chinese manufacturers, because the laws or the practices in China are set up to save jobs in China, and prevent US from using the parts to assemble trains anywhere but China.  I could be wrong but that is what I understand.

Jim S posted:

Simply put, MTH put products out there that were every bit as good, and sometimes better than Lionel, which at the time, was content to rest on their laurels and kept recycling offerings using their existing tooling.  MTH forced Lionel to step up their game and actually compete for our O gauge dollars.  Thanks to Mike Wolf, we now have the huge array of O gauge product out there that IMO we wouldn't have otherwise.  Personally, I would not have the collection that I have now if it weren't for Mike Wolf, as MTH offered quality O gauge trains in the road names that I was interested in.  Thanks, Mike!

And there you have it.The whole truth and nothing but the truth.Yes lionel got in a runt with their trains.I remember talking to a fellow train guy.He said lionel had made so many hudsons almost as many as macdonalds big macks.I recall MTH was the first to offer models of giant  steam locomotives.Diecast that is  I know their some brass models.But thats another book.Lionel had to step it up.Thank you Mike.

Mike Wyatt posted:

No question that competition improves the game for everybody.  The MTH competition has meant that Lionel had to innovate, and we consumers ultimately had more product to choose from. 

Lionel's image of quality but at a high, premium price goes back to the postwar and 1950's period when the competition's niche then (Marx) was generally lower prices, but with less detail.   At the time- there was other competition -American Flyer (more realistic 2-rail) , and the increasing popularity of HO as a more space-friendly size, and as being more realistic scale vs. approximately scale as well. 

MTH came to the market with equal or better detail, and at a generally lower price, maybe through and due to building product in Asia.   If so, Asian sourcing was a decision forced on everybody by the MTH competition, and has meant lower prices, and lower prices even with added features. It meant that Lionel had to go to Korea and China for product instead of simply re-issuing the postwar products as they did through the MPC and Kughn eras. 

However, IF Lionel had not been using the same manufacturers, from a small base of manufacturers as MTH- then the situation that resulted in the lawsuit, the legal battle and bad blood in the industry would not have happened. 

So you could argue that the current situation of the industry being controlled to a degree by the Chinese and Korean manufacturers as another result of the MTH competition.  This is inconvenient, or a disaster depending on your point of view.  Tooling that lasts for years, under the control of the Chinese, means that it is very costly to be flexible in your sourcing, and to change sources when market conditions (like tariffs) indicate you should.

I would summarize it as, WE have more choices of products at higher quality and with more features.  A win for the consumer.

But the model train and hobby industry is enslaved to the Chinese government.  They control the sources- and (I understand) that Lionel (I don't know about MTH) cannot buy train parts from the Chinese manufacturers, because the laws or the practices in China are set up to save jobs in China, and prevent US from using the parts to assemble trains anywhere but China.  I could be wrong but that is what I understand.

Now you have some fair points.The bad blood I think started with Richard Khunn.And the law suit did not help matters.How ever MTH makes tinplate trains for lionel.I thought I would never see these companies would never work together again.But there it is.That being said you are also right about the competition.Mth forced lionel to step it up.Along with kline atlas and williams.We now have menards in the mix now.With their being so much product.What I like is if money is tight.You can go for the used train market.I have gotten some good deals.So as I stated before you have good points here.

If MTH only made two things, the BEST smoke units in the business and the iconic Z-4000, they would have influenced the rest of the players!

I THINK that part of the judgement in favor of MTH was that they got to build and market the Lionel tinplate line using Lionel's name and designs, without compensation, and for X number of years.  I would not call  a court-ordered agreement "working together".  So I am not hearing the song "Kumbaya" here, exactly.

My guess is MTH will eventually buy Lionel. 

Interesting speculation, and not entitely implausible!

"I THINK that part of the judgement in favor of MTH was that they got to build and market the Lionel tinplate line using Lionel's name and designs, without compensation, and for X number of years.  I would not call  a court-ordered agreement "working together".  So I am not hearing the song "Kumbaya" here, exactly."

There was no judgment in favor of MTH. There was no court order. It was a negotiated settlement agreed to by both Lionel and MTH in which no finding of legal fault by Lionel was made. The original verdict finding liability by Lionel was set aside on appeal prior to this settlement. 

Then Lionel files for bankruptcy as a legal defensive maneuver, likely to get the lawsuit into a more neutral setting (NYC rather than Detroit). 

The agreement to settle the suit was negotiated in bankruptcy court by an individual judge, and involved Lionel agreeing to a cash settlement to make the lawsuit go away. 

The agreement for MTH to use Lionel trade dress and the Lionel name on their tinplate products was, I'm fairly certain, negotiated separately and did involve payment of licensing fees to Lionel.  The Lionel CEO at that time stated it was "just good business" or something to that effect.  Lionel had decided to make very few, if any, tinplate trains by then, because the volumes were too low. 

Mike Wyatt posted:

I THINK that part of the judgement in favor of MTH was that they got to build and market the Lionel tinplate line using Lionel's name and designs, without compensation, and for X number of years.  I would not call  a court-ordered agreement "working together".  So I am not hearing the song "Kumbaya" here, exactly.

As far as I know it wasn't part of the agreement when the law suit was settled, the announcement came more than a few years after the lawsuit was settled. FYI, that agreement has ended, MTH won't be making the lionel tinplate line any more. 

They should make DCS backwards compatible with DCC- (so you can run DCC with DCS) then they would have changed the market.

"My guess is MTH will eventually buy Lionel. "

My guess is that no such event will ever occur.  Lionel is owned by a private equity firm that would want a price premium.  Not a recipe for a bargain. 

MTH is a sole proprietorship, I believe, where the sole proprietor and his closest associates are approaching retirement age. 

The real question to me is what is MTH's succession plan, if any?  This is a static or even shrinking industry.  It remains to be seen if a buyer is willing to pay the asking price one could expect a sole proprietor who has devoted his entire life to the business might ask.  It would surprise no one if there turns out to be  a significant disconnect between the owner's perception of value and the market's assessment of value.

MTH didn't force Lionel to go to offshore, manufacturing was already shifting offshore and with the movement of China into the WTO that opened up its doors, it was inevitable that production was going to go there from Korea, the cost there was just too cheap for the owners of the companies to ignore it. I don't see much sign of Lionel even competing with MTH on price, while both have cheaper and more expensive lines, in general Lionel still in my view is more expensive than MTH across the lines (and obviously, there are going to be exceptions). They both build in China because they are relatively low volume manufacturing where maximizing the profit per unit is standard, and because it is low volume you can't use other techniques to improve productivity, just not worth the cost, so they go with low cost manufacturing that is pretty low tech. 

To the best of my knowledge, with the exception of the legally contracted Lionel Classics and Lionel Corporation Tinplate lines, MTH never used Lionel badging on their Tinplate Traditions line. ALL products were clearly badged and stamped MTH Lines. Besides, the Lionel patents on those designs were long since expired at any rate.

Yes, MTH changed the market, because he is competition and competition is good. If MTH did not exist, someone else would have come along.

Mark

Tinplate Art posted:

To the best of my knowledge, with the exception of the legally contracted Lionel Classics and Lionel Corporation Tinplate lines, MTH never used Lionel badging on their Tinplate Traditions line. ALL products were clearly badged and stamped MTH Lines. Besides, the Lionel patents on those designs were long since expired at any rate.

Yep, the licensing for the Tinplate and classics lines was because they called them "Lionel", that name is copyrighted. If you think about it, Williams made copies of Lionel postwar equipment, it is how they made their name, and that is because they don't mention Lionel, and probably because given that Lionel engines are themselves based on real engines, kind of hard to claim originality. The patents Lionel had likely were on things like the smoke units, the e-unit and prob the open frame motor, none of which Williams used, it is also very, very difficult to patent how something looks, just ask Apple about that one. I suspect had Williams copied things that could be argued were lionel originals, like the operating accessories, the motorized units like the fire car or the tie jector and so forth, possibly the original burro crane and the way it operated, they could have run into trouble...

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

That Mikado you refer to was was developed under Mike Wolf's leadership.  By that point at Williams, Mike's Train House and Nicholas Smith Trains were taking the total Brass production at Williams.  They also controlled quantities, quality and product determination.  Mike at the time was the largest distributor of Williams Trains. 

GG1 4877 posted:

I will agree with others that state that Williams in and Weaver really started the change in the O gauge market.  Nothing against MTH products as I have many.  However the shift to scale trains on 3 rails really started sooner than MTH.

Granted Mr. Wolf was involved at some level with the introduction of budget priced brass steam locomotives at both Willams and Weaver. 

 

You are correct that 'Mr. Wolf was involved at some level, etc.'.  Mike financed, arranged for production at Samhongsa and took 50% of the production run of the Weaver 'Gold Edition' line.  That included over 20 brass engines, GG-1s, EMD E-8 AA's and other diesels. He also designed the boxes, designed and printed the catalogs.

Remember those really nice 'Custom Train' passenger sets and the FMs.  Yep, Mike involved again.

The early Lionel scale production was also produced by MTH.  NYC Mohawk and Railchief Cars, Southern Mikado, Chessie T-1, Pennsy S2 and other items.  As you will recall the detailing was done in the style of older Lionel detailing, not very much because Lionel was not yet in the game of highly detailed stock.

bigkid posted:

MTH didn't force Lionel to go to offshore,

Anybody remember Lionel's attempt in the 1980's to move production to Mexico to save on labor costs?

Rusty

PAUL ROMANO posted:

My guess is MTH will eventually buy Lionel. 

Your guess is probably very wrong.  Not going to happen.

The opposite may happen due to some regular business cycles.

rthomps posted:

PAUL ROMANO posted:

My guess is MTH will eventually buy Lionel. 

Your guess is probably very wrong.  Not going to happen.

The opposite may happen due to some regular business cycles.

I figured Mr. Muffin would eventually buy MTH...

cjack posted:

rthomps posted:

PAUL ROMANO posted:

My guess is MTH will eventually buy Lionel. 

Your guess is probably very wrong.  Not going to happen.

The opposite may happen due to some regular business cycles.

I figured Mr. Muffin would eventually buy MTH...

LMAO!  One of the funniest/best comments ever on the Forum!  Well Done!   

Good morning, If it wasn't for a fine gentlemen in Homer City Pa I would have never got back into this hobby.

I walked into his shop to get my wife's Lional Santa Fe repaired and he showed me then the new MTH trains and I was sold.

Mr Wolf and his crew has brought this hobby to a level never thought of 20 years ago.

The release of DCS was the icing on the cake in my opinion.

Thank you Mr Sutter and Mr Wolf for your insight in this great hobby and giving myself and my family so many hours of enjoyment.

Thanks !!!!!!!

Jim S posted:

Simply put, MTH put products out there that were every bit as good, and sometimes better than Lionel, whichat the time, was content to rest on their laurels and kept recycling offerings using their existing tooling.  MTH forced Lionel to step up their game and actually compete for our O gauge dollars.  Thanks to Mike Wolf, we now have the huge array of O gauge product out there that IMO we wouldn't have otherwise.  Personally, I would not have the collection that I have now if it weren't for Mike Wolf, as MTH offered quality O gauge trains in the road names that I was interested in.  Thanks, Mike!

Overall I believe that the presence of MTH in part made Lionel what is is today.  Just try to imagine what Lionel would be today if MTH never existed.

The drive and innovation Mike brought to the hobby gave Joe H. and Jim W.  the incentive to go strong in their lane.  All three of these had a much slimmer trimmer management system with cleaner crisper decision making capacity than the big L.

Without MTH it would seem to me that most of the offerings we have today would be repaints.  

Plus the 0 scale market today is somewhat of an Albatross to many local hobby shops.

Let’s not forget all the nice engines that mike wolf helped make for Lionel before he started mth. Like the first Lionel shay and some other scale engines. TMCC was great but it was outdated when dcs came out. I still think Lionel steam has got them all beat in sound. 

Lionel's excellent sound systems owe MUCH to Neil Young, who in turn, arguably knows a LOT about all kinds of sounds!

In so far as fidelity to actual locos goes Atlas and Sunset are very hard to beat. It is a shame that Atlas has had so many problems producing O scale locos (I am a 2 railer). There are so many different stories it is hard to understand was is really going on with them. Sunset continues to produce a very highly detailed loco that is a slightly more expensive loco without the dreaded China drive and usually on time. Shame on the rest.

Dick

MTH RK N&W 611 J made  me switch from HO to O3r. The size quality and heft made me do it. I didn't until I went to the LHS 'just to look at it' and when I found my dealer offered it at less than $300 brand new....I then jumped. But recent costs have stopped my buying any new trains.

Like most guys who grew up with Lionel Trains as a kid, it was all over by 16 and a driver's license, but the Williams 1985 brass Hudson and later Mikes and Pacifics got me back again. I loved the scale steam look in three rail and still do. I jumped on Weaver and Sunset's 3rd Rail brass engines. But when Mike came out with sound, I went for his Premier line of locos.  To me, he set the standard for Three Rail Scale and the rest followed.

No doubt the entry of MTH, K-Line, Williams, Weaver, Atlas, Right of Way, and Menard's into the O gauge market had a positive effect on things for the consumer. Choices of product were broadened significantly and in many cases the abundance of different brands, caused prices to become more competitive. While I view the model train market of today as flat, there are still numerous products to fill any need whether it be for price or features.  The bottom line is that no O gauge company now dominates the market.

I had a retail hobby shop and settled upon Mikes Train Shop as the best distributor of my O gauge train purchases (Lionel, Weaver, Williams) because Rich Foster was very helpful to me being new to trains as a business and they generally had the best prices by a small margin. When Mike introduced his MTH line, I was amazed at the first several catalog offerings with the F3s in many multiple road names instead of just two or possibly three previously available from Lionel each year. They were the the first with the scale die-cast Challengers and other large steam locomotives. Mine sold out within a few weeks. The RK Challenger with it's 'GG1 like' pivoting twin motors was a true stroke of genius - and they would smoke you out of the room!

Man!I got a lot of feed back with this one.But keep em coming guys.

The #1107 Railking Challenger was the biggest thrill for me when it was announced. I ordered it immediately because I believed something like that would only be a one-time run. A 031 Mallet just couldn't please enough buyers, right? Glad to be wrong.

MTH definitely turned up the heat for Lionel. When MTH released those Dash 8s in 1992 or 1993 it was a game changer. Lionel's only offerings were those horribly out of scale Dash 8s. MTH then followed up with: C30-7, SD45, FP45, GP9, SD9, Dash 9, GP20, SD60 - Good stuff for diesel guys.

MTH made Steam more affordable.

I still have my early MTH catalogs. One even offered live steam in G gauge. It was never produced. They had rows of F units sets that in fact where HO models. It takes a lot of guts to catalog product that worn't even made yet. Three layouts back I was running 50's Lionel and for electrics I had three Williams "Little Joes". I liked the Williams because they were longer and had six wheel trucks. All had the Ott sound system in them. WOW that was a big jump. I repainted my Williams because the colors were and I think still, way off. Then I saw a MTH RailKing 0-6-0 at Lee's Train Service in Oakland. It was amazingly cheap and when I got it home and heard the sounds, a better WOW than the Ott system. I loved it like I loved my 2026 as a kit. No more looking for used Lionel or new MPC. My next buy was RailKing's "huge" in my eyes then, Santa Fe steam engine. No plastic tender for me ever again. There must have been thousands of us longing for something new from Lionel. But no, just reruns of things we grew up with for years. This young kid, Mike, truly change the three rail world. Don

scale rail posted:

This young kid, Mike, truly change the three rail world. Don

The O gauge hobby, and model trains in general, would be nothing like they are if not for Mike. And he has made it immensely better in my opinion.

MELGAR

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

GVDobler posted:

We have family garage sales now and then.  I have never had a person come up to me and ask "Do you have any MTH trains" but every single time someone comes over and asks "Do you have any Lionel trains."

Not sure that means anything, just saying..

I think that's because Lionel has existed for about 120 years and dominated O Gauge for most of that time.

And because the name Lionel Trains has become synonymous with American traditions like Baseball and apple pie. Not very many people outside of the hobby know about MTH Trains. If I were going to garage or yard sale I too would ask for Lionel Trains even if I was looking for MTH, K-Line or Weaver, etc because this way the seller would know exactly what I was looking for.