How long did your layout planning stage last?

I went through a planning stage similar to yours. This is my first permanent layout. I had a pretty good plan to fit the space I had available. Then we moved a year and a half ago right as I was about to start building it. Now the space is different and also much larger. I didn't have the budget to fill the whole space at once so I ended up just getting a 6'x16' Mianne kit and laying some track on it. It has given me a good sized layout to experiment with and I have learned some things about layouts by having it.

The next phase is to expand to a more final size of about 16' x 22' in an L with each part of the L being about 6' wide. Then there will be a yard about 2'-3' wide and 10'-12' long about 2' out from one of the L's. Also a similar size to yours. One of the reasons I chose the Mianne bench work was the ease of re-configuring it, which was part of the plan. I think I have a pretty good plan now and some re-configuring will be needed which should be very easy to do with the Mianne.

Maybe you could do something similar to what I did? With your space size already defined, and you probably have some idea of what you what to end up with, just get a table going and start laying some track. That might help some with the getting stuck on the planning part and get things going? I didn't know enough about permanent layouts to know if I had a good plan or not when I started, but I had an idea about the space I had to work with. That prompted me to just get a table up and start experimenting. It would at least give you the opportunity to run some trains while you work out the final details. Unless you are an experienced layout builder and have a few under your belt already, I think probably most of us go through some changes during the building phase.

I started as a tubular guy, running potwar so my original layout had 031 curves, then I discovered the big boy and now I am reduing the layout with a minuin of 072 curves. Now I am using gargraves and Ross switches.  I wish I had listened to the guys at the hobby shop, who told me to use gargraves and ross.  I also read that you should have no bigger that a 3 feet span so you can reach the trains. SO my layout had pods that where not greater than that.  

Life is a learning process.   

This should make you feel better.

I've been in perpetual planning stage since I got back into model railroading in 2010.  5 years of starts & stops, layout types, table, carpet, scale switching (O-N-HO) and I'm still basically where I was in 2010 (but with more than just the starter set loop and train ), but I have enjoyed every minute of the ride!

-Kevin

I actually started planning my layout before I started construction on my house. Since I was the general contractor, I was able to make sure that the train room was exactly he way I wanted it. This allowed me to have the minimal number of obstructions, including posts, beams, pipes and ducts.

I did spend a fair amount of time with paper and pencil, probably about a year and a half. The plan may change a little, as was the case with the lower level, or it may totally evolve as was the case with the upper level, but I try to give everything maximum thought before any construction.

 This is one of the earliest construction photos I have taken back in 2003.

This one was taken from almost the same location late in 2014.

With me, once track goes down, it STAYS DOWN! You may not want to take such a hardcore approach, but you do need to start moving forward. Carpe diem.

I'll let you know when I'm finished. Actually, the build isn't taking place because I'm planning to move.

What eventually worked for me was to make a list of elements and features I had to have; and, decide what kind of operation I wanted when running the trains. 

This initial effort led to the conclusion that I'd need an around the room layout to provide the perspective control I wanted.  And, from there, it was relatively easy to begin bench work, buy GG flex track,  and Ross switches, etc.

Adding to Pingman's thoughts...this may help you define your railroad, then the rest is easy...except for getting your tenants out on their own. perhaps if you start working on the room it would annoy them enough to move. Electrical for lighting and layout power, lighting installation, wall prep and painting.

My planning stage maybe lasted 3 months. Measuring the area of where and where I could not put tables helped a lot. That was more then 11 years ago. But even what I had planned has changed a bit over the years as I have tweaked parts of the layout to improve an area................Paul.

LOL  Kevin

"I've been in perpetual planning stage since I got back into model railroading in 2006."

That's a perfect answer for me as well. I just had to substitute a few more years to it.

Larry

I started planning my layout back in 1980. I had an HO layout and moved so it was in boxes. The new house was a little smaller and needed some major renovations. Between family, house and work the railroad took a seat way in the back of the bus. I ended up selling the HO and started buying n-scale. My plan was to build a new house with a big basement for my trains. Finally in 1998 we started construction on the new house. I put together a temporary n-scale layout in the new basement. I was never satisfied with the bench work, so I tore everything down and started planning a new design. I started to finish off one side of the basement and had to take a break as work sent me to Afghanistan and Iraq. Back home again in 2004 I finished off the basement and had everything from that side piled in my train area. In 2009 I rediscovered O-scale and decided that's what I wanted to build. I found this site in December of 2010 and asked for design ideas. I received a few and picked one I liked that would fit my space. 17' X 28' with only one way in and no duck under.  The first thing I did was frame out the walls and put in a ceiling and lights.  I was working alone, so it took a little while.  Last October I finished installing the double track main line and completed the wiring.  I changed my yard area and I’m in the process of wiring and fastening down the track and switches.  Still a slow process.  I have about five more drops to put in and then crawl under the layout to connect all the wires to the power source.

I started with my Marx set at 7 years old, not completed, went over to HO in my teens, not completed as I got into cars, it languished there with track and no scenery for

years, then I discovered the tinplate activity, and it continues, as it has, for decades,

still not completed.

An artist's work is never done...

I never had a written or drawn out plan. I just had an idea in my head and went from there. When I was a teenager I would draw out different track plans on paper. I must have drawn hundreds of track plans but I never build a big layout,  back then all I had room for was a small  4 x 8.

My layout today  is 18' x 14' and it has 3 main lines and a small 5 track yard.

I power the rails with two  ZW's. I can run 4 sets of trains at the same time. 

I am starting to get bored with it and it may be time to start over. Being retired I now have plenty of time to start over!

40+ years...and I never built it. 

About a year, maybe a little longer.

And I'm at 37! However, a turn at 765's throttle will make up for it......

My planning stage is never ending as I plan as I go to be honest so it's now going on 2 years and this is just a temporary layout as hope to move in about 5 years

Planing for 50+ years, in over 3 different owned houses, trying 6 different scales, modeling N, Z, HO, HOn3, HOn30, On3, O 2 rail, O 3 rail,G 1:20.3, Standard Gauge and a little S.

Never enough money, space and time at the same time.

My last two prewar layouts were in the planning stages for seven years. Each was enjoyed for almost three years. Now that I know who purchased my layouts, I rest easy every night. 

Which layout?

I think Bill and I share the same "mean time" layout ideas.  We both get our ozone fix with around the room layouts near the ceiling.  It limits what can be designed but consequently takes little time to plan.

Planning on layout #2 began back around 2007.  I still retain some initial drawings and even today the layout plan I have in mind looks basically the same.

To develop my attic real estate I had to start in the basement and work up.  Unfortunately I have lost ambition at times so it's taking longer than hoped to convert the attic into living space.  I'm near the end of that and really look forward to getting started with layout construction...later this year???

Bruce

I'm at over 2 years, and on plan 99.  In fact I'll be posting about it soon.  You're right in that it seems harder and harder to come up with something that makes you happy.  I've had a handful that I thought were the one, but one thing or another ended up killing it and back to the drawing board I went.  I'd be done already if I had kept to O36, but Lionel just had to do a Vision Line Big Boy (My favorite locomotive, and I had the K-Line version which handles O27 just fine.) and I knew if I didn't get it I'd kick myself forever more, so having to plan in an O72 loop made things a bit more work.

Rather than plan so far, I've taken a general concept, and built as I went. Few plans ever go unchanged.

  I have yet to tackle the "big one". When I do, I think it will be a lop sided dog bone. Two main line loops hugging a wall and looping in the corners , 4 block control, and two cities. Later lines, & cities built off that later.

  No concept has remained totally unchanged for me, except a perfect 0-27 circle .

 While I have three to keep me busy now, any long periods without a layout, had a carpet central to keep me into it.

  That's how a perfect circle ended up on a small table here. I moved it to vacuume, and left it there. At Christmas it got a green table cloth & a tiny tree. Then in Feb., I fasten the cloth & left it for grass .

Started for me some 14-15 years ago and recently ended with the installation of Ross turnouts #96 & 97. I'm a slow worker. Basic trackplan remainsthe same but a lot of additional industrial sidings and run-a-round tracks for operations. Added on to the Mianne benchwork five times as well as adding a lower level.

Years.

Jack

The actual planning, meaning givens and druthers, took me about five years and an awful lot of paper, 1983-1988. My main area is about 17'x28' with an additional 6'x10' extension. The final plan is a semi around the wall track plan. Semi meaning no duck unders.

Before starting bench work i laid out most of the track on the floor to be sure my paper ideas would translate into reality (especially around two track mainline curves, turnouts, and under the five track passenger terminal).

After that building the benchwork and laying roadbed (Homabed) and track (Gargraves) came easy, and NO adjustments to the plan were needed. My only mistake was completion of all the trackwork, after which i just ran trains for almost a year before seriously beginning scenery!

For me that much time planning in what i wanted in a model railroad and the hours spent re-working track plan ideas paid off in giving me what i wanted considering the available space and not having to re-do anything after the track was laid. Even now as we are planning a 20'x22' two level addition to the house, and i've been offered most of the one 20'x22' room to expand my railroad into, i've actually declined it. What i have is big enough, especially when it comes to track cleaning, and i'm enjoying simply improving my modeling skills and adding more details to what i already have.

jackson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJmTzIFKvys

7 years and counting for me.  Packed up the trains when I left for college, and now on a temporary work contract out of state, so still planning for that future layout when I'm settled back home or in a place I don't expect to be moving from in the foreseeable future.

Have a 27x31x2 around the room shelf layout with 2 loops. I've been going over different ideas for a long time, possibly an island in the center for a train yard and or a reversing loop maybe both not sure yet. Before I do I need to dismantle a 16x13 N scale layout in the center of the room. Still planning and changing ideas guess that's what keeps us interested in the hobby.

Dana

All of these replies make me feel a lot better. I was under the impression most of you were up and running! In 2007 (?) my fiancé asked me "Are you serious about wanting a train?". I didn't even realize that I had been talking about something I liked since childhood but never had. So for Christmas I received a Lionel (didn't even know about MTH) RTR Rio Grande set. Put up the customary 4x8 plywood and immediately got bored. Found cheap porcelain buildings, got another 4x8 to make an L shape, bought another RTR set and had two separate loops........bored again! THEN I discovered OGR Magazine and saw what people were doing with realistic scenery and prototypical settings...WOW! I also discovered a great local train shop whose owner was above and beyond the first shop I visited. Dennis Brennan's book also motivated me! I started sketching on graph paper using scale rulers and curve templates (I was experienced with landscape designing as well as Art so this part was fun). Like many others here, I have a layout under development but I am frustrated that it is still a world of pink. I want to invite friends and my granddaughter's friends over but it is so far from completion that I am embarrassed. I want to start with the scenic work but keep holding back; the same with improving the wiring. Part of my problem is that I wanted to represent a certain area but it just is not possible in the space. Also, I would like to try to fit in a second mainline but that is not how it is in real life AND it means cutting away more space from the already too small town. Do I keep revising it until I am happy with it (is that even possible?) or do I just go for it, glue down what I have, wire, paint, scenic, etc.? Like the responses in another recent thread, I have piles of boxes of trains, MTH, Cornerstone & Ameritown buildings and kits (slowly getting rid of most of the porcelain), cars, trucks, people, and so on. I don't understand the mental block that I have with this (I guess that it is the permanency of it). I have designed and installed a similar size one as a temporary layout in town for the holidays and it is a great hit!

Mikki

TNHokie:

Interesting thread and comments.  Some folks have "visions" of what they ultimately want.  Others have visions that evolve over time and experience with trials and discover things they like and dislike about the first and second or more trials.  Sometimes there are true errors like measuring once and cutting twice (I do that now and then), but other times its about experimenting.  I used graph paper to help me stay within limits of basement space when designing my existing layout.  I kept tweaking track configurations for months until I finally settled on a plan.  Another thing that I think is important is deciding what type of trains you want to have.  Scale, semi scale, tinplate, or all types.  I started in semi scale and eventually went to scale.  Fortunately my initial design had O72 curves with some O81.  I may have gone bigger if I had envisioned scale originally because my 18 inch passenger cars are really close to having a little too much overhang for my taste.  Take heart, planning time for a big "permanent" layout is an individual sport, and rushing it may lead to some regrets.  But keep in mind that change for most of us is inevitable.  We become more knowledgeable, improve our skill sets and our tastes and other circumstances change. Very interesting observations on this thread.     

My overall plan for a layout (at least the serious portion) lasted about 2 years. The overall concept was in my head for more than 15 years but I'd given up doing in G scale several years ago and got rid of all my G stuff. When Bachmann made the ET&WNC ten-wheelers, that's when I realized I could finally have the G layout concept I'd dreamt of, but in On30 instead. I've never regretted getting out of G now that I have On30.

I was going to build an 'L' shaped layout in my toy room as I had several book cases along the walls. The breakthrough came when my wife said I could move one of them into another room. I then cut down another one to fit under what would be the benchwork eventually. Then, I moved the existing book cases along one wall.

With the area now set, a pal of mine designed a track plan that I wound up using for a basis (his plan was in HO scale thinking and it didn't fully translate to On30) after modifying the center portion which came into the center of the room, an element I had never contemplated before then. He made more progress in 2 hours than I'd made in 18 months.

Meanwhile, I was buying track, rolling stock (and painting/decalling/weathering each as they showed up), locomotives (I now have 4 Bachmann ten-wheelers), structures and other detail stuff, working on each as they showed up as well. That was how I was able to translate from a pile of lumber and track to a semi-completed layout as quick as I did. Keep in mind, my layout was just a pile of lumber and boxes of On30 stuff as late as the end of July and now it only lacks the scenery to be completed.

You can look for more details in the link below which shows a track plan (and the original one) and lots of photos and more details on how it was eventually built.

 I was in a world of sea foam green (green foam) that had me "locked up". I picked up some rolls of "grass paper" from a hobby shop, and just rolled it out, no glues. Having that more organic look vs total "plasticville" helped. You can always add ground cover over top of it as time goes on. I think I spent $34 on a 4.5 x 9 layout, full price at a Hobby Lobby, so getting it cheaper shouldn't be too hard.

I also have Mianne and want to add on to it. I have their a 6'x16' package that they added extra holes in the legs for adding shelves or whatever I wanted to add. They helped me with the original order, even though it was a standard kit. I have already added the shelves and purchased a transformer cart. I would be interested in how you did all the additions to yours. How they came about, etc. I am interested in any tips or advice you might have.

Some questions: Did you start with the standard Mianne bench work height of 40"?

How did you add the lower level and can you run trains from the upper to lower levels?

What do you think about an upper level that one could run trains between both levels?

Did you just leave your first Mianne bench work as it was when you ordered it, or did you modify that when you added on?

I know it's very easily modified. Part of my dilemma is not being able to make up my mind which way I want to go. I know no one can help with that, but hearing from someone that has added on five times might get me going one way or the other? I know all situations are different, but your thoughts would be appreciated. You have also been at it a lot longer than I have and I am sure you have much more knowledge about all this than I do.

I am not sure one can revise their plan enough to meet all their requirements in the space they have allocated, I think your next line is true that it is probably not possible. You should not be embarrassed to have people come run trains. If they have a layout they have all been where you are now, if not then they won't know what is going on anyway and you can tell them about your plans for the layout hand what all the stuff is that you already have installed. If they do have layouts they might be able to offer some helpful tips. I am sure they had sticking points while building their layouts too.

I think you are on to something about the 'permanency' of these things. That is one thing that is slowing me down right now too. I hadn't really thought of that until I read your post, but there is a lot of truth in that statement. I planned a larger layout than I could afford to build all at once and I am waiting on the currently depleted 'layout fund' to regain some strength so the project can continue. This was always part of the plan. I wanted to have a larger layout and did not want too wait a few years to be able to run trains. One of the many compromises. Since this is my first permanent layout, getting some trains up and running has helped me decide on some things I like as well as things I don't like.

If you have some track down and can run trains, have your granddaughter and her friends over to play with your layout and trains. Kids have great ideas after playing with something for a while and you might just want to use some of those ideas. They are very creative and have great imaginations. You never know, they might even help you reach your final plan?  

One more thing that I think is important. Most of the layouts I have read about in magazines are usually not the first layout the owner has built. They got to that point by building several other layouts prior to the one they are featuring in the magazine and learning all the while as they went. It took some folks a lifetime to get where they are today with their layouts.

I'll let you know when I've finished the planning stage...which has gone on for years.

I started planning the PRR Panhandle in 2000.  I started to build it in our first house in Central PA (Hershey).  The basement had the space but was the worst laid out house I've ever seen - massively defective design and very wasteful of space.  The original was 22.5' x 10'.  We moved to the present house (in Hummelstown) in 2003.  I had a smaller but more useful basement.  I then went through the process of re-planning it for 18.5' x 10' using RR-Track.  Fifty (50) versions later, I had a useable layout.  However, it still changes every so often as I re-work an area I don't like or my thinking evolves.

I'll give you the advice I've gotten over the years:

1. If you are modeling an area or prototype, study it.  Take photos or look at old photos.  Do your research.
2. Pick out the features you must have (features, buildings, whatever) on the layout.  Discard the rest.  Don't look back.
3. Avoid going for the maximum amount of track.  Work on a plan that allows you to run trains, not flip switches or only switch cars (if that's your preference).
4. Look at track plans, lots of them.  Buy this book:  Track Planning for Realistic Operations.  Even if you aren't into realistic operations, this will help you plan your layout.    http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/215406.aspx

Best of luck,

George

This is really important.  If you have kids or grandkids, get something down for them to run.  Don't make them wait for the "perfect" layout.  I did and I think that's why my boys are not into trains.    I've got a shot with the 1st grandson! 

George

Never planned a single inch, unless you want to include measuring every available sq. inch of the basement not devoted to utilities and ordering the plywood and 2x4s necessary to fill it. When the van-load of lumber arrived, I went, "Gulp!" but then plunged right in, making the various sizes of platforms,  most 4'x8' w/ 3/4" plywood atop, but some odd sizes, like 2'x6' and 1'x3', here-n-there. Once all the platforms were in-place, and carriage-bolted one to the other, making the whole layout one tight unit, I got appropriately inebriated by the fragrance of all that wood and started figuring out track arrangements and where to - if at all - have a second and/or third level(s).

I wouldn't say I was clever about it all, but I sure had a good ol' time of it playing and letting it all flow out of my creative core.

FrankM.

I had a very good friend design a layout for me. I did not follow the track plan once I got started but it was a huge help getting me started. The plan has evolved over 2 years. Here's the plan he came up with.

Maybe have someone draw one for you.

Planning layouts has become a full-time sideline of the hobby for me. Sometimes, occasionally, I actually build another layout.

I did a pretty good good designing my current HO layout "core module" because I've been essentially satisfied with it for 35+ years. I've had some variety with changing the yard-on-a-shelf addition to it.

With 3-rail O-gauge I've enjoyed the fun and flexibility of trying out different track arrangements without trying to build a large "permanent" layout. I currently have about 400 feet of "temporary" O-gauge track in operation.