How much of a backup is the 4014 move causing?

Probably with a lot of siding time for the 4014.  UP has no compunction about sending a 40 mph train ahead of a 50 mph train.  If the 40 mph train is moving at or close to 40 then a half hour head start will keep them out there for many miles.  UP measures velocity and the system is currently at 19.5 mph so if everyone is moving........

Having said that, there are a few hot Z trains and everything will get stuck in the hole for them but other wise you have 12 hrs to work and UP see's to it that you do. 

Greg

I'm not sure that the 4014 dead-in-tow move is operating even close to 40MPH. So far, it has been moving more like 20MPH, with a maximum of 25MPH.

Thus, it is just operating "siding to siding". 

Yeah, it's a 25 mph move I'm sure and UP will still keep it moving.  There will be a lot of re-crewing going on for that move.  Having had a few of those 25 mph trains myself, we polished a lot of sidings..........

Greg

Once it heads north by HWY 93 it will be interesting to see how many times it has to stop.

They're definitely hopping from siding to siding. I doubt the hospital train is providing any significant interference with regular traffic.

The one point that nobody has mentioned so far is, the money that UP is spending on operating crews alone for this move, considering that BOTH of the diesel units each have an Engineer, since they could not MU them together, and they are NOT using DPU capability, if the units are even equipped with DPU. Now compound that with the foreshortened crew runs between "stop overs", and the cost of dead-heading crews, by way of crew vans, will wind up being a huge expense.

At least the load of Sailboat fuel and Post Holes they are hauling will help defray the costs

(FYI Sailboat Fuel and Post Holes is what we would say we were hauling when we would have to deadhead semis several hundred miles between loads)

lets just hope it does not seize up a bearing... she might be in the siding a little longer that the UP planned...

I seriously doubt anything like that would happen, especially with all the running gear preparation that went into the locomotive, prior to this move. Besides, all the rods (rotating motion) are NOT under power/thrust, they are only simply rotating, at a VERY reduced RPM at that.

The day it left West Colton, it never exceeded 20mph. At least that first day, there was no issues with the 4014 at all, all the way to Yermo. There was significant back up on the BNSF Cajon Sub as anytime the engine stopped for inspection/display, they would not run trains by on parallel tracks. BNSF had several relief crews running around for those trains running out of time, but these days, that's pretty normal. There was a BNSF employee on the 4014 for the entire trip from Colton to Yermo, to "coordinate moves while on BNSF tracks".... of course he is a high up official and a railfan as well.  

Wow, do I see a glimmer of optimism in you?

What is interesting is the timing of the project. 5 years? Why so long?

I Did not think the 4014 needed that much reconstruction.

didn't the 765 take 4 years to restore?

Let's see now, the 4014's been out of service for 45-50 or so years now...

I'm pretty sure Hot Water could give you all the gory details, but in a nutshell, the 4014 is going to have to be brought up to current FRA requirements and I'm pretty sure that includes pulling all the flues and ultrasounding the entire boiler and firebox, along with all the required mechanical work along with any surprises (there will be some) along the way.

Rusty

OK, here are some possibilities:

1) All the superheater units will have to be removed and completely replaced.

2) All the flues/tubes will have to be completely removed and replaced.

3) the boiler will have to be completely inspected and ultrasound tested with the sheet thicknesses recorded. Same for the firebox.

4) Untold number of staybolt caps & sleeves will have to be replaced, with possible renewal of untold number of satybolts.

5) The American Multiple Valve front end throttle will have to be completely disassembled and valves, seats, camshaft, and lifting fingers rebuilt or replaced.

6) The cab will most likely be removed, in order to remove and repair or replace virtually every component on the boiler back head.

7) All appliances removed and rebuilt, including air pumps, Elesco exhaust steam injector, Nathan 4000S injector, dynamotor, power reverse assembly, whistle, bell, cold water turbine pump, and cylinder cocks. Just to name a few.

8) Entire electrical system completely renewed/rewired.

9) Removal of coal ash pans, ash hopper, stoker system, and firebox grates & grate shakers & supports.

10) Removal of Engine truck and Trailing truck assemblies for complete rebuilding.

11) Removal of all drive wheel sets in order to be sent out for new tires and crankpins. This process may take two years alone, since all the wheel sets can NOT be removed all at the same time. There has be SOMETHING supporting the locomotive! 

12) Complete spring rigging and springs need to be rebuilt/replaced as required (probably all NEW springs), which also includes all new pins & bushings in everything that moves, including brake rigging and brake cylinder assemblies.

13) Firebox converted to oil burning.

14) Tender completely rebuilt including removal of stoker engine and auger equipment, rebuild or replacement of springs, spring rigging, brake rigging, brake cylinders, and renewal of all pis & bushings. Tender must also be converted to fire hose filling from ground level on either side.

15) Complete renewal of the cab signal equipment to the latest solid state design combined UP/CNW cab signal & ATC system.

These are all the "Big Ticket" items that I can think of at the moment.

Anyone know of any pics of the move?

--Greg

Yes. There are hundreds and hundreds of photos & videos all over the internet, Youtube, Trains Magazine "live stream" (you have to be a subscriber of Trains Magazine, I believe to view that), and Trainorders.com.

I have a question:

Most comments about "where will the Big Boy operate" are meet with an answer of something like, "well, it depends. If there is a wye or something".

Maybe a better way to ask this is "under the current UP system/track map, where will the Big Boy most likely NOT be found?" Meaning, without changing any of the current infrastructures, are there any "popular" areas/cities on the UP system that will not see the engine?

Could the engine make it from Chicago in the east to LA, SF, and Seattle in the west?

If Cris Christy makes it all the way to the oval office and he requests’ the Big Boy to attend the presidential inauguration, will/could you get the engine to Washington?

This last comment is totally hypothetical and just for discussion.

Charlie 

Thanks, interesting information.

Charlie

those guys from train mag seem to think she will return to colton.

When and, for what? A 4000 class can't be turned there, as I think they discovered that 4014 could not SAFELY negotiate the "balloon track".

Well the first "excursion" is supposed to be for the Railgiants group right?

You mean the "first excursion" out of the LA area, right?  I'll bet the "first excursion", which may come right after the first break-in run, would be over Sherman Hill.

Re the 4014 operating in the eastern part of the USA, it was often observed that western steam locomotives were about a foot taller and wider then eastern locomotives. Why? The eastern railroads were  built earlier, in tighter quarters. Only the Erie had generous clearances, as it was originally built to 6 foot gauge. The Erie was used frequently to ship big western locomotives from the eastern builders.

A partial answer to the the question on where she can run is, where was she built?  They had to move her out west from Schenectady some how right?

In regards to converting 4014  to oil, I think everyone is in agreement it can be done but how much of a fuel hog will she be compared to 3895?

Well HW can answer that question much better than I..but a fuel hog is what it will be...no question. 

Yes I did...L.A. 

Which is to say the throttle and reverser handles will be original.  Everything else will scratchbuilt new.

Naaaaa....it will still have plenty of original 4000 class parts on it....from various 4000's.

As we used to say at IRM: "Jack up whistle, replace locomotive."

Rusty

didn't they turn it west of colton? 

because when it left Pomona it was tender first.

as has been proven with this move anything is possible.

Let's go back for a moment to the report, several posts above, that the Diesels doing the pushing and pulling require two engineers, because the two Diesels, one at each end of the Big Boy "...can't be MU'd."

I would think that there are clever electricians on the payroll who could design and install an MU cable long enough to plug into the MU receptical on each Diesel and fasten it over the top of the tender,  and along the running board of 4014.  Surely this scheme is simple enough not to cause any problems, and has been done before in special movements of dead or disabled motive power.

I would imagine that even with the very best communication and coordination between seasoned engineers, an electrical solution, monitored carefully, far outweighs the vagaries of human operation.

[Switching flame-retardant suit from "STANDBY" to "FULL" ]

I believe it's called "showing off."

Rusty

It might fall under the heading of "being able to back up in a safe and expeditious way (with a clear view of the back-end) if something goes wrong" or "we need the extra braking" or some other safety-minded reason.  I can see where this is a very public-relations conscious operation, meaning, if they can afford redundancy, go for it.

Well, it appears money is no object then, otherwise DPU equipped locomotives would've been used.

One has to wonder, though...  At what point does money BECOME an object?

Rusty

Got stuck this afternoon on Pa. 28...blaming it on World wide Big Boy insanity !