Saturday was definitely the slowest day at my table, but I still sold a few items. Nothing compared to Thursday and Friday.
John
York will be around forever, times change but seems like fads and hobbys come back around, Pennsylvania is the train capital of the world, can't change the location. Look at furniture and cars, they go around in circles, people use to like antique stuff because they hated 70s modern furniture, now modern furniture is selling big, next antique will be back. I really enjoy the bandit meets during York week also, makes the whole week super fun, I did see a vision line big boy for 1500 new in box, that' a great price!!!
Traindiesel posted:It must be remembered that the York Meet wasn’t ever meant to be an event to promote the hobby. It’s an event created by the members for the members to buy, trade and sell trains. Nothing more. It evolved into including the importer’s displays, who by the way we’re required to become members to participate.
If the dealers and importers decide not to attend, the Meet will go on as it always has. Members buying, selling and trading trains.
The Worlds Greatest Hobby Shows are geared for promoting the hobby. And those of us who are members of the TCA, including vendors and importers that attend, are the ones who should be promoting the TCA and the hobby. The York Meet is the result of the interest in the hobby. Not the catalyst. But it could be if we do the job of enlightening the masses of how much fun this hobby is.
Its up to us to create current and future Trainiacs!!
Wow. What a concise accurate assessment of the york train show.
I still dont understand why the complainers and manufacturers and dealers don't start their own train show. Such easy money to be made
Traindiesel posted:It must be remembered that the York Meet wasn’t ever meant to be an event to promote the hobby. It’s an event created by the members for the members to buy, trade and sell trains. Nothing more. It evolved into including the importer’s displays, who by the way we’re required to become members to participate.
If the dealers and importers decide not to attend, the Meet will go on as it always has. Members buying, selling and trading trains.
The Worlds Greatest Hobby Shows are geared for promoting the hobby. And those of us who are members of the TCA, including vendors and importers that attend, are the ones who should be promoting the TCA and the hobby. The York Meet is the result of the interest in the hobby. Not the catalyst. But it could be if we do the job of enlightening the masses of how much fun this hobby is.
Its up to us to create current and future Trainiacs!!
Agree with a lot of this. However, York has reached the point where it's the primary (sole?) reason that many people remain members of TCA. Even though we are constantly reminded that it's an Eastern Division meet, it has become so big that it's and TCA's survival are intertwined. That might not have been ED's intention, but that's the current reality.
I believe there were many years that the york meet attendance was below 5 figures and somehow it survived.
Once you get the emotions and "that's not the way I want it" out of the discussion, York still remains the best train show worldwide.
Find out the average dollars spent per attendee and compare it to other shows.
Did the official attendance for the Spring 18 show come out? Can't seem to find it.
Jim
scott.smith posted:How were the crowds today (Saturday)? I was disappointed with the crowds this Thursday and Friday at York. There were empty tables for the first time in Orange Hall. I was hoping that the public would help fill the void. Maybe the TCA should attend the World's Greatest Hobby shows on the East Coast to promote York event.
Scott Smith
The definition of ignorance is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. IMO, the TCA has to change its modus operandi to survive. Should the WGHOT and TCA join forces to hold a train show it would probably be massive. I believe that its a brilliant idea as WGHOT shows are held at or near big cities where crowds (and families) are easier to draw.
Darn, the calendar doesn't say February 2nd..........
Dennis,
The definition of ignorance is doing things the same way and expecting a different result.
Actually, that's the "common" definition of insanity. 
I read these last 2 posts, & I can't figure out what is being said here.??
eddie g posted:I read these last 2 posts, & I can't figure out what is being said here.??
reason enough this topic should be deleted.....
The definition of ignorance is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. IMO, the TCA has to change its modus operandi to survive. Should the WGHOT and TCA join forces to hold a train show it would probably be massive.
Said the guy who isn't a TCA member.
Never been to a WGHOT show. Had to do an internet search to find out what it was. If the show is as big as folks here state, I doubt they would gain anything by joining forces with the TCA. Likewise, for the Eastern Division, The York Train meet may shrink, but it will continue to draw folks from all over the country, and even a few from overseas. This is because York is both a social gathering for people interested in collecting trains, and a place to exchange them (trade, buy or sell).
Yes, the over inflated prices of many trains have dropped. And I think that trend will continue. But collecting is alive, as evidenced by sold listings on EBay. It also seems to me that the number of collecting related posts right here on the OGR board is much higher than it was when I joined.
eddie g posted:I read these last 2 posts, & I can't figure out what is being said here.??
Well, if I was one of the 2, the February 2nd reference was to Groundhog Day, or more directly the movie that used that name - where the day basically was lived over, and over, and over, and over again by the main character.
My point was that a very simple request of the claimed attendance for April brought back all of the arguments that have been done to death previously from people who are not TCA members. (at least he left out the suggestion to include a carnival and clowns this time)
-Dave
You got it right BURF.
Dennis LaGrua posted:scott.smith posted:How were the crowds today (Saturday)? I was disappointed with the crowds this Thursday and Friday at York. There were empty tables for the first time in Orange Hall. I was hoping that the public would help fill the void. Maybe the TCA should attend the World's Greatest Hobby shows on the East Coast to promote York event.
Scott Smith
The definition of ignorance is doing things the same way and expecting a different result. IMO, the TCA has to change its modus operandi to survive. Should the WGHOT and TCA join forces to hold a train show it would probably be massive. I believe that its a brilliant idea as WGHOT shows are held at or near big cities where crowds (and families) are easier to draw.
You simply cannot compare a WGHOT show with the TCA and the York meet. Both are completely different breeds of animals, and combining them would in my mind kill the purpose behind the TCA and York.
Anyone that has been to a WGHOT show will know that it is NOT intended for the serious collector. This show is designed specifically for families and newcomers to the hobby. You'll see numerous young families with small children, entry level stuff, Thomas merchandise, a lot of layouts, many ooohs and ahhhs, and vendors selling very little on their tables.
The TCA is an organization primarily for the serious hobbyist/collector and York is a meet where members can get together with one another to buy, sell, and simply talk trains. York was never intended to draw the general public (at least until recently). It's still primarily a private event done by members for members.
If you want to go to a train show that can satisfy both families and collectors, go to a Greenberg show.
Andrew DeSabatino posted:The TCA is an organization primarily for the serious hobbyist/collector and York is a meet where members can get together with one another to buy, sell, and simply talk trains. York was never intended to draw the general public (at least until recently). It's still primarily a private event done by members for members.
If you want to go to a train show that can satisfy both families and collectors, go to a Greenberg show.
That's always the way I have always viewed it, and I have attended literally hundereds of train shows and train meets over my long tenure in the hobby. I have stressed for years, here and elsewhere, that there is a distinct difference between a train show and a train meet, and York is most definitely a train meet, while WGHOT is most definitely a train show. Both--and others like them--are just fine the way they are, and both have a good reason and purpose for being what they are.
I like/enjoy York the way it is (or was until recently)...an event sponsored by a division of the TCA for the benefit of its members and other TCA members from around the nation and the world who wish to attend. The York Meet grew to be the largest event of its kind simply because of its unique and special approach: members serious about their hobby getting together with other members who share that deep interest for the purpose of buying, selling, and trading trains, and to share information and companionship.
I attended one WGHS, for the entire weekend. There were VERY FEW vendors like you would find at York or Greenberg, and the only thing people were buying was Thomas stuff and inexpensive train related toys. It was a nice day out for mom, pop, and the kids. Combine the two?
Just revisited the WGHOT show web site. The pictures were predominantly display layouts. The site boasts 200+ tables.
How many tables are there at York?
Checking the calendar... York about 7 weeks out... yep that's about right. Time to wash, rinse, repeat, repeat, and repeat.
All I know is I'm going. I'll have a great time and probably buy some stuff. See a lot of friends, hold the Legacy meeting, see what's new, and come home a happy boy. How terrible could that possibly be?
MartyE posted:Checking the calendar... York about 7 weeks out... yep that's about right. Time to wash, rinse, repeat, repeat, and repeat.
All I know is I'm going. I'll have a great time and probably buy some stuff....
I'm with you, Marty! See you there! It is always a fun and informative time (even though I'm pretty well tapped-out on buying since I received FIVE new locomotives--all at the same time--about a week or so ago).
Marty, Burfle & Allan, you all have it right. I have been going for over 40 years, and now it is more of a social event. I have been to a lot of other shows over the 40 years, and nothing compares to York.
If you know the exact count, I can make this graph more complete:
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Numbers and graphs are interesting things. The same set of numbers can be edited and presented several ways to support several different points of view. If the graph went back before 2007, might there be a peak, with a positive slope leading up to 2007? (Don't know)
And how have other hobby organizations done during the same time period?
I've read that most organizations have experienced a downturn in membership & participation.
here's a 4th order poly trend line fit if it makes anyone happier
But, I got the data from -- well here. Some posted some numbers and I just plugged 'em in to excel best i could and fiddled with the trending tools provided. Adding 2018 would be, well more data.
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Attendance in April was 8605
Wow, I stayed home and the place fell apart, eh? 
Of course the number of attendees is going down at a fairly consistent rate. Could not possibly do otherwise given the demographic changes in our hobby and hobby industry (and society as a whole). But that is predictable, inevitable, and probably irreversible. It will level out at some point, and perhaps even take a bit of an upturn, but there's little to be gained in fretting about what the future may hold.
York is still, in my view, the greatest event of its kind, and I hope to continue attending for a fair time into the future (the Good Lord willing). I would go to York even if I wasn't with the magazine, just because I enjoy the event and the people. Now, if the major manufacturers, suppliers, and dealers decided to pull out--and they may well do that at some point--I might have a change of heart because I also very much enjoy that part of the meet. These days I'm more involved in operating than collecting.
I well recall the heyday of our hobby and the York Meet back in the 90s. I was lucky enough to be a part of that, and I sure have fond memories of those times at the fairgrounds. But I also try not to dwell on what was and will continue to enjoy what is for as long as I can.
Well 8605 then for april then, if someone knows the (future) 2018 number for the next one. it'll probably go up i think a bit -- that'll complete the year & the graph to date.
Chart-wise, it would be interesting to see the yearly mortality rate of those who were born before 1950. I pick that date because I seem to remember Lionel's high point being 1954. I would guess the York chart to be less of a decline than the mortality rate, since people with interests and hobbies are supposed to live longer.
Interestingly,the latest TCA publication that came this week honored 86 members that passed. There were well over 300 potential new members shown in their 3 month listing. I have been watching this for some time. It seems that new members are coming on board in good numbers. There is interest in the TCA. Sustaining for the long haul? Who knows for sure.
Norm
Norm posted:It seems that new members are coming on board in good numbers. Sustaining for the long haul? Who knows for sure.
Norm
I hope so...still, I wonder how many "new" members are doing so because they just retired? They finally have time to "play" with trains. 
well i do credit lionel with appearing to try to broaden the appeal and ease of use of use for their model trains by having a line of cheaper remote control ones that don't require a separate control box.
Interestingly,the latest TCA publication that came this week honored 86 members that passed. There were well over 300 potential new members shown in their 3 month listing. I have been watching this for some time. It seems that new members are coming on board in good numbers. There is interest in the TCA. Sustaining for the long haul? Who knows for sure.
I believe new member names are listed in three consecutive issues to give people a chance to voice concerns.
There are always a decent number of names listed in the new members section.
Regardless, perhaps some of the folks are joining the TCA for other reasons, and do not go to York. If the last show had approximately 8,600 members register, that means that approximately 13,400 TCA members did not.
