How Would You Improve My Layout

Hi,

I just want to confirm that you are using O-27 track (that's what it looks like in the pictures.)

Are there any accessories that you are interested in adding to the layout? I think your layout will hold more interest if your trains had something other to do than run in circles.

You have a real good layout there!  I am one of those people who likes every square inch of real estate covered with something (just like the real world cept for deserts).  Add more buildings and people.  Just my 4 cents, adjusted for inflation.

Hi: 

Install a "backdrop". Cover the window with a board with a section of backdrop on it. 

A backdrop will realy jazz up the layout. city industrial?  

Some buildings, or scenic elements (trees) would add interest. A switch or so, some sidings, plus uncoupling sections, so you could switch cars in ,and out of the sidings

One my favorite tricks...especially in a small space is to go up with tiers. You could put a second and even a  third tier on this layout. Tiers give you more scenery space to work with and make it seem like the trains are going someplace as they disappear in and out of the tunnels under the tier. A twist I've also  used in the past is to have part of the track from the upper tier on trestles, which breaks things up a bit more. If height is an issue you can lower the height of the base a bit.

I also really like the yard bump out idea since it would add some action without taking up a lot of space.

do you like switching? add some sidings and some action accessories.

It is a known fact that even the guys with the super-duper layouts get bored. A trick I tried on both of my prewar layouts was to install mirrors and it worked. On two sides I installed 16"tall plywood onto which I installed custom cut mirror panels. Any glass shop or big box hardware like HD can do it.

I appreciate the input.

Yes, the track is tubular. The outer loop is 0-27 style track with 042 curves. Inner is 031 curves with O gauge (black ties) track. Upper loop is 027 track with 027 curves. The freight car storage tracks (not connected to any other tracks) on each side of the layout and the trolley are 027 profile track also.

I like the idea of a backdrop...Scenic express appears to have a lot to choose from at reasonable prices. Thin sheets of plywood (or similar) and Home Depot would be easy to mount on the back of the layout.

John Bull - did that. I had the Trolley on it's own elevated track, separate from the other elevated track seen in the photos and I personally didn't really like it. It was right up front and I found it blocked the views of the rest of the layout substantially. I'd be open to doing it again, although in a different spot, or have the trolley wind around on an elevated track.

The photos don't really show a lot of the figures, etc but with any layout, you can spend thousands and still have your town look like no one lives there!!!

I think a siding on the elevated loop would be do-able. Despite my preference for Ross Switches, a simple 0-27 switch would do up there, be a better fit geometrically and I don't think would cause any major issues as I generally run my smaller locos up there anyway.

Of course, more input is appreciated.

Back drop?

I would add a second level.  Make the current bottom level a subway line and on the second level put your existing layout.  You could add some nice subway stations on the bottom level.  Add a switch to the bottom level so there could be a feeder track which surfaces to the top level.

SJC, my layout is smaller than yours. Mine is one train operation, BUT with several sidings, a passing spur, and a reverse spur. Instead of an overhead loop like yours, I decided to utilize my smaller space, having a single straight overhead track in the back.

BUT on this upper track I place all my stationary operating cars: Motorized aquarium, motorized chase gondola, vibrator searchlight car, motorized walking brakeman car, etc. I use drinking straws cut and spiced over the center rail to act as an off/on switch... move the car slightly to the left, it's on... back to the right, it's off.

On the overhead track, there's also a couple of platforms (the track is on a thin piece of pine stripping, painted black) for a switchtower or whatever small buildings I put there.

I've made use of smaller accessories, or modified them to make the footprint smaller. Also instead of doing the full-on ballasted track, scenery approach, I used different colors of paint to "mimic" the ground cover and ballast. This allows me to change and move buildings around to keep some variety and excitement. I added brown foam ties which I cut myself, which really do a great job at reducing the rubble noise... even with 027 track.

Operating cars on the layout, such as the outlaw type of cars, operating barrel cars, milk cars, giraffe/elephant cars add fun. At first I didn't like the goofy overhead piece on the short 027 hydraulic maintenance car with the two figures that switch places... but it sure is fun to watch and a real kid pleaser. Lots of dump cars, log cars etc. with the dump bins made from Rubbermaid drawer bins, so they hang over the edge of the layout right next to UC tracks, thus not occupying valuable layout space.

All my signals / crossing gates are button controlled versus track activated. So one time around, I can activate the banjo signal (which I also kitbashed to make it lower) and the next time around the crossing gate.

I have an MRC Soundstation wired into bigger speakers, so there's another element of play value and cost savings. One system fits all.

So TO YOUR LAYOUT... if it were me, I'd eliminate at least one of the loops (the overhead) and even one of the lower ones. If you like two, I'd move them closer together on one side, to allow even more clear space on the other, allowing for small buildings and such.

Hope some of my ideas inspire you. I have plenty of fun with my layout and NEVER get bored - even without all the latest and greatest stuff.

Thanks for the continued replies. 

I definitely think a back drop will be in the cards. It is an easy thing to do that will add some "depth" to the layout. 

I like the idea of a second level but that may not happen for some time for a variety of reasons. 

Brian - thanks for the lengthy reply. Please post a photo of your layout -- I'm rather intrigued to see what you've done. Also interested in your suggestion to REMOVE a loop or two. Never thought about that. I tried the 1 train layout once and quickly ended it. Watching one train going around wasn't something I liked but I didn't have a variety of sidings, and routes and the time. 

As for your elevated track of accessory cars, do you run them or are they just on display? Again, would love to see photos. 

One thing I think I'm definitely going to do is add another siding on the inner loop to make a small 2 track yard. Switching in conventional is a bit of a PITA but I like the option of being able to do it if/when I want to do a bit of switching. Obviously I'd love to have a large yard but that will be many years down the road!!!

How hard would it be to connect those two "spur tracks" in photo two on the right to the rest of your loop?  That way you use them for industries, etc as well.  Also if the inner and outer loops aren't already connected connect them to get trains in and out of the two loops.

-rog

I would get some switches with non-derailing features (the postwar Lionel 022 O gauge switches had them, don't know the O-27 versions) so you can have a loop to loop run instead of one of the ovals.  that way the train is constantly changing directions.  I did something similar for this past Christmas layout, and it was almost hypnotic to watch as opposed to a plain loop.  the best thing is with the non-derailing feature, you don't need to do anything, the train will move the switch by itself.

Thanks Roger and AXP. 

Roger - I don't think it would necessarily be hard to do but would take a little creativity in track laying - I think the best way to do it would be a piece of Margraves Flex track. I've looked into doing that many times, just haven't pulled the trigger on doing it. I'm a bit afraid that the curve would be too tight to really get anything but the smallest equipment back there. 

AXP - Interesting idea. That is how we did things on the park railroad. I'd actually think that would be fun to do with my trolley. 

Brian - thanks for the lengthy reply. Please post a photo of your layout -- I'm rather intrigued to see what you've done. Also interested in your suggestion to REMOVE a loop or two. Never thought about that. I tried the 1 train layout once and quickly ended it. Watching one train going around wasn't something I liked but I didn't have a variety of sidings, and routes and the time. 

As for your elevated track of accessory cars, do you run them or are they just on display? Again, would love to see photos. 

Yeah, I agree, sometimes a photo is worth a thousand words. I'm old school... I have a digital camera now, but it's not my old Rollei, so I'm still trying to figure it out.

I agree that a single loop mainline "could" be boring, which is why all my signals are button activated. And the MRC Sound Station has buttons for diesel idling, bell, conductor, crossing gate bell, etc. Railsounds it's not, but since it is all push button activated, there's one more activity to add variety to a single loop operation. Again, operating cars also add variety.

My overhead track is mounted high enough (made my own "trestles") to clear everything. It has constant power, with a variety of cars stationed on it. So if I want the aquarium car to operate, as I mentioned, a slight move to the left, and it is operating. A searchlight car or two adds more illumination to the layout.

Some of the modern Lionel operating cars have an off/on button beneath the car. But since that's a little awkward to reach, the drinking straw insulator over the center rail is a much more convenient on/off switch.

All my trees are mounted in bases I made, so they can be moved around... again, a little more variety. A couple buildings, like a customized K-Line diner are in place because I also added a smoke unit to the building. BUT others can easily be moved and switched... again, adding variety to a small layout.

It's really all a matter of what makes you happy (and what you can afford, too). For some here, operating less-than-scale might be torture. Or running without command control and full digital sound. The constant sound would be annoying to me, and I prefer the control aspect of push button activation.

One more point as an 027 operator: The non-derail feature on the 027 Lionel switch is from track power, rather than auxiliary power like the 0 gauge switch. The 027 switches can be rewired with some effort. But for this reason, I use manual switches. Far away ones can easily be operated with nylon fishline from the front of the layout. I also modified the manual switch box housing, removing the very top part indicator, filling the slot, and then painted it silver, with a couple of small red/green colored indicators just above the control lever, so it's easier to tell which way the switch is set.

I do the hobby on a budget and I'm pleased. I love it when I read here that traditional 027 trains and 027 track have gone the way of the do-do bird. What a laugh!

More than likely, when some folks high-end expensive trains stop working and parts are not available, mine will STILL be running. NO shelf queens on my layout.

And my layout might be small, but I have a layout. There's compromises to everything. I'd rather have a permanent layout and run traditional 027, than be amassing a collection of scale sized trains with no where to run them but on a floor layout... but that's my choice.

SJC,

Increasing the table to 5' x 9' opens up a new realm of layouts that can provide operational elements. It looks like there is space for that size.

Switches will definitely be required to alleviate loop syndrome.

A depressed figure 8 on a 4' x 9' can provide a basis for an interesting layout. It leaves more scenic space open than a traditional figure 8.

A tunnel provides visual interest. Add the elevated level and a bridge or 2 with track on top creates more visual interest.

It's already been mentioned that giving the train something to do adds play value. Two small spurs with a, say...log loader one and unloading on another. Coal is another commodity that works on a small track plan.

You can create some interest and have some fun building a new layout.

I like what you have so far. Similar to where I began track wise. Like a downtown version of my own.

 Id want to connect what you have going now, add a siding, and expand the El, but to one side since you have that little yard. A siding could become a longer bump-n go line maybe? Moving the full O up, and keeping the lower level 0-27 would make this go smoother. The transition height isn't much, but even little transitions take some space to happen.

Im going to play with scarm.

Thanks for the continued replies and suggestions. 

Brian - thanks for another lengthy reply. I'm really liking what you've described. When you get that camera figured out, share some photos. Sounds like you have a lot of fun. I've said before that I've had the most fun in my "early years" in O gauge on my basement floor as a kid. Dad worked down the street from a train store and would occasionally bring home extra track (tubular) - like boxes of it. We'd have so much fun building new track plans together on the basement floor. Always something different and I wish, sometimes, i could go back to those days!!

Carl - Giving the train something to do is one thing I want to add. I would still like to have one loop for primarily running passenger trains. For example, I think the outer loop would be be designated for this but I'd like to add a siding to the outer loop to at least be able to park half a passenger train there or something. I'm going to go to my LHS this Saturday to see what kind of dump cars, etc are in stock. I am looking at putting in another tunnel. Just having trouble finding an open spot. There was a guy here on the forum many years ago that built one out of Lionel tunnel portals, wood dowels, and a paper grocery back and hot glue. It worked beautifully. I built one and after many years it began to fall apart. It wouldn't take more than an hour to build another one. It is small but would add interest. My old layout had a 4x4 foot tunnel with no access. Of course, that is where there was always a derailment...

Adriatic - I was just down stairs looking at expanding the trolley track and I think I may be able to run it around the back of the table to the other side - kind of like a giant stretched out "U" shape. Will have to look closer just to be sure my larger equipment would clear. As mentioned, I'm going to add another siding in the middle for a small yard. I've considered another on the elevated loop with a simple 0-27 switch. I think it is doable although the process may be a bit of a PITA. I'd like to get everything set up for now before going there just to get a rough idea of where I can place supports, etc. It would be nice to store one 0-27 freight car up there. 

A magnetic crane next to the track would be cool. 

SJC,

Here is the depressed figure 8. This could be converted to O or 027. This is FasTrack on a 4' x 9' table.

There are opportunities to add sidings, it provides a way to reverse the train direction,

has alternate routes that be run and can just loop around the perimeter.

This could be the first level track changes. 4 switches(non-derail) and a 90° cross.

I would do a disappearing train layout. with an outer loop on main level with the disappearing part leads to a mountain on the mountain I would have 2 tunnels with each end being elevated. and on the lower level I would do a subway style layout. I hope I explained that well enough

Thanks for the continued replies and suggestions. Much appreciated. 

Kieth, I agree a crane would be fun either magnetic, coal, whatever. I'll have to look into one of those. 

Carl - Thanks for the plan. I've seen layout with a similar track plan that look like fun. Appreciate you taking the time to put that together. 

Jhainer - thanks. I no longer have a subway set but have toyed with the idea of getting another. It would be fun to have a dedicated Subway layout or track. 

Also wanted to update on my present plans/thoughts. 

As you can see on the left side of the layout, I'm planning to put a second tier/tunnel. This will only come out about 14 inches. Enough for a tunnel. The buildings in the way of the yard will go up there, maybe the trolley if there is enough room. This will also give a tunnel. Again, the yard is also in the folds. 

On future plans, connect the outside loop to a siding alongside the right side of the layout and add a siding to the upper loop or expand the second tier to either accommodate another loop of track, trolley, or whatever. 

Tunnel construction is well underway!

I might be a little late to your party, but IMO your space cries out for some version of a Lionel display layout modified to incorporate some hi-rail aspects such as your tunnel, some scenicing and maybe a reversing loop -- something that could be easily moved or torn down in the future when you move but can still give you operational interest in the interim.

Poppyl

That's looking good! The train running through the tunnel just adds some enjoyment. Good idea to make some space for some scenic items.

Do you like it?

Poppy - I actually tried that in another life but never really stuck with the Postwar design. I have always liked some of the Postwar layouts. I'm not an expert on them but I recall Jim Barrett reconstructed one in OGR some years ago (2005/2006 timeframe maybe) and I really enjoyed it. I think something like that, even on a modified scale, could be done. 

Carl - Thanks for the kind words. So far I haven't used it, except for the video attached. I think it will be enjoyable and break up the view a bit. Now I'll have to get a few more buildings for the top! 

Here's a design that provides some operational elements for interest, but it sacrifices one train. Two trains and a trolley. I think the tunnel will still fit. Flip the siding for clockwise running. Passenger stop near trolley now. Share a station.

You need to start looking for some k-line switches for a final cure.

Just some food for thought.

I had lost this thread. I stopped getting its notifications.

Looks like your doing just fine

A fully operational crane?

 I don't think any one item can cover as many purposes as a crane does. The "ultimate" in play value IMO. I was quite jealous of my cousins while growing up, and its always "on the list".

Sorry for not getting back here sooner.

Carl - I really like that plan. I've just filed that away for future reference. It has continuous running, switching and industries, trolley, etc. Lots of action in a small spot - I like that. Thanks for taking the time to draw that up and share. 

Adriatic - Thanks for the kind words. Still debating on what kind of accessories I want. I like MTH's Tank Car filing station. They have a non-operating and an operating. They are both exactly the same only the operating has the little guy swing down on the tank car. $100 price difference. While I'm all for action, etc, I find a $100 price difference rather hard to justify if they are both the same and the only difference is a little guy moving a few inches back and forth. 

In essence what I did on scarm was to super spaghetti the el anyhow, no loss there as it didn't fit without adding a few inches to the table too.

 I'd love to see just the trolley line get expanded now.

A trolley grade on "Telegraph Hill" going up to your rural town?

I just don't know what kind of grade a trolley can pull.

(Bet we could get "Gi-raffe Mitch" to test some if that grade max is unknown) 

 I also like the look of taller buildings tucked in close, encircled by an el. And my plan changed that some. boo! hiss!.

An el station platform though???

Or two, or three ????.

 One just for the city building, and/or one near that for the trolley area.

 And one for the hilltop community.

The Hill's el platform, could have a catwalk/ foot bridge over the rails below to the depot "on land".

Hi fellow member, SJC

     "An expansion is not going to happen, at least not on a large scale as a move will be in the somewhat distant future (2 years or so)"

     Maybe a shelf layout around the room, about two feet below the ceiling. This could be moved in two years, also some railroad stuff on the walls.

Good Luck

Gary 

• Cheers from The

SJC,

Do you have any 027  054 curves. Putting a small snake in the front would provide some train action\interest.

I think it will just fit. The first and last curve will need to be cut to fit.

It would add a nice swerve as the train rolls past.