humidity and the DCS system

I have had my layout  in a unheated garage for the past 5 years and I have incurred no problems with my tiu or dcs at all. Every year we have many days above 90 and humid and no problems.

You shouldn't be having that much of a problem.  Have you tried tethering the Remote to the TIU to see if you have the same response lag?

When I forget to dump the dehumidifier in my train room in the basement with about 68 degree temp in the summer.  Any humidy over the 60% will keep the florescent lights from turning on, taking about 10 minutes to come on full.

Shame on you making fun of a customer Rich.

C'mon, guys.  jini5 is in NE Ohio, humidity shouldn't be the issue.  How about we try to help?

It's simple, really.

Move the system and track back inside. If all functions are restored to normal, then the system is simply not suited for outdoor use. If the issues persist, then it's obviously not humidity and you will need to consult with the experts on getting the system back in order.

An example would be after pushing the "read" button, I have to wait for a full minute before I get the results. Whistle button is slow to respond to the command as is just about all the buttons. scrolling up the speed is also very slow.(I have to keep turning the thumbwheel several times just to get the speed up 1 mph).

These doesn't sound like a humidity issue, per se. Rather, these are all typical symptoms of one of three issues:

• Either the TIU and remote aren't communicating well. Connect a 4-conductor telephone cable between the TIU's Remote Input port and the base of the remote. If problems go away, that's the issue.
• If it's only one engine having troubles and others are OK, the issue is most likely with that one engine.
• If it's not one of the first two, then there is most likely a serious DCS signal degradation between the TIU and the engines.

More information as regards the above will rule things in or out, and we can proceed form there.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Jini

Heat and humidity absolutely do not have an effect on DCS   Our club room has no AC and it gets unbearable in there sometimes.   DCS still works fine.    What type of track are you using?  I have a feeling you might have some track connection problems from expansion.

 I wouldn't take much that Al Pacino PC3850 has to say about DCS as believable as he has 0 experience on it and has never touched it.  Maybe he thinks he looks like a young Abe Lincoln now 

A lot of folks use DCS on Large Garden RR so I doubt it's the heat unless the components are in direct sunlight. 

Take the time to follow Barry's advice even if it seems a little off course.  He is trying to gather information to help.

Your holding the remote wrong!  <Thanks Steve Jobs for that one!  It worked for Apple.>

It would be interesting to know if communications between the remote and TIU are two way (send-confirm).  I believe that it isn't.  So, it sounds like, as in many cases, the key question is "communications issue between remote and TIU or between TIU and train?"  Plugging in the remote would answer the first.   The second possibility seems more likely.

Heat DOES affect electronics....how about a small fan to cool (and maybe remove some moisture from) the TIU as an experiment?

Ed

Well it has been extremely humid and hot the past few days in southeast Mich. My central air which includes the basement is hard pressed to keep up. The humidity in the basement rose and I also noticed the DCS system not working as well, also one of the florescent light fixtures takes forever to come on. So I do believe humidity matters, also I might have a weak ballast in the light fixture and MY DCS system is probably not wired perfect. So its time to check things out.

Clem k

I've also had sporadic fluorescent light problems in the basement on the hottest days of the year. I always thought it was due to over-demand on the power company with all the ACs running, and a resulting slight lowering of the voltage they could provide.

Not really a brown-out, but just enough of a difference to affect weaker fluorescent fixtures???

Haven't seen a problem with command systems on those days, but could the two be related for some people under the right conditions???

Jim

My basement is air conditioned so the temperature is pretty much constant, as is the rest of the house. The humidity for the last 7 days as been 75 to 100% outside. My cheap meter in the basement is reading 45%, normally its 35%. Once the humidity drops 5% in the basement the light works and the DCS just fine. Now it could be a weak ballast in the light fixture and my DCS system is probably not wired for optimum performance. Three scale miles of main line no blocks only split where my entrance is. TIU under layout.

If the weather is humid, there might be condensation on the tracks, which could provide a way for the DCS signal to be weakened.  But if 10's are obtained when the problem occurs, this would seem not to be the problem. 

If you have just brought the remotes or TIUs or locos outside from an air conditioned house, you could begetting condensation in the remote or TIU or loco which would attentuate the DCS signal.  Does the problem exist after these have been outside for an hour or so?

There could be some interference from a neighbor

Eddie,

It would be interesting to know if communications between the remote and TIU are two way (send-confirm).  I believe that it isn't.

You would be wrong.

They are, indeed, 2-way, unlike just about every other model RR command control system. However, you can force DCS to be 1-way by using Speed Mode.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/60-1279

 

Barry, perhaps you should just put this info in your signature. Would save you the trouble of writing it after each piece of advice 

"You would be wrong.

They are, indeed, 2-way, unlike just about every other model RR command control system. However, you can force DCS to be 1-way by using Speed Mode."

Barry,

A few years back, I asked about this and was told by you that it the TIU did not communicate status info (like AIU switch positions, etc) back to the remote. That's what I based my question on.

Not a big deal.

Ed

ps. I'd still try a fan - nothing to lose!

Eddie,

I asked about this and was told by you that it the TIU did not communicate status info (like AIU switch positions, etc) back to the remote

That's correct. TIU to AIU communications is one-way, since the AIU hasn't got any intelligence. It's basically a box of relays.

However, that's not DCS command communication, which is two-way.

Nick,

perhaps you should just put this info in your signature. Would save you the trouble of writing it after each piece of advice 

No, that would be inappropriate. I only provide that info when my post references the book.

I've had an outside layout for 9 years using MTH's DCS system and have no problems with the signal whether hot, humid, raining or dry. The TIU/AIU combination as well as the Z-4000 are stored in an outside control house all summer. They are only brought in during the winter months as well as engines. I use Aristocraft stainless steel track and switches and run all MTH motive power. However, Aristocraft switches were a major DCS signal killer until I modified them per suggestions from CRH. Joe

If you haven't already, I would wire both outside rails to common.  Will ensure better two way communication I think.

.....

Dennis

I find that in the summer with higher humidity the track (mostly gargraves flex) develops a layer of dirt on the rail much faster.   After a week of high humidity the loco's miss some signal sent their way

And I have a dehumidifier in operation

That's like saying the power to your house via outdoor overhead electric lines and/ or cross country high tension cables suffer when it's hot & humid...which they don't.

We run year round outdoors with stainless steel track on the ground and it poses no problems with DCS...infact in the winter the snowblower has to be pushed with 3-4 locomotives to clear the rails and DCS works just fine. Just the other day was running in the light misty rain and had to stop because the engines started slipping.

Just getting back from vacation. Thanks for all the replies. I have tried tethering the handheld to the tiu. Didn't seem to make a difference. I think what annoys me most is the turning and turning and turning......of the thumbwheel to get the engine to speed up and slow down. New batteries,recleaning track,jumpering 2 outer rails together don't seem to make any difference. Is it time for a new TIU and handheld? Very frustrating. Seems like all this stuff works OK,then you don't use it for a week or month, then have dcs issues next time you turn it on. What is it about dcs and problem development just from inactivity? Also noticed I cant get custom sounds to work. display says no custom sounds available which I know I had 2 on file. I cant get any more to record either. Ever feel like leaving o and going to n scale where you can take a loco and throw it in the trash when you have rare problems?

Also noticed I cant get custom sounds to work. display says no custom sounds available which I know I had 2 on file

FYI, Custom Sounds are stored in the TIU. If you reset the TIU, they're gone.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Barry, thank you for all your input. I never reset the TIU due to the fact that I would have to reload all my engines. Didn't want to do that. I only have 1 tiu. It is 1 of the first ones out in 2002. No internal fuses and only 1 revision since I owned it (3.10). Custom sounds used to work but cant record any new ones now tethered or not.

I never reset the TIU due to the fact that I would have to reload all my engines. Didn't want to do that

Resetting the TIU only removes Custom Sounds and Record/Playback sessions.

Everything else - engines, switch tracks, accessories, TIU and Z4K Tracks - is stored in the remote.

Why aren't you using "quickset speed". Push down the thumbwheel, type in the speed you want, push the thumbwheel again to set.

I'd like to see the quickset speed slowly accelerate to the new speed like the momentum setting with the Legacy, that would make the Quickset much more useful.

 Do you have the acc and dec set to 1??

Sorry for any confusion jini5. this was answering John's statement of the engines speed response.

Joe, I tried the quickset and couldn't get it to work. Is my old TIU capable of doing that with 3.10? And yes, I do have acc and dec set to 1. I think my next move will be to add the realtrax clips and add more lock-ons. I went through all the track this evening and adjusted all the copper tabs that make contact with each other at every joint. I think that may have helped a little. I found a few of these tabs bent over.

 One more interesting thing I discovered is that I have a section of the shelf layout that is exposed to direct sunlight with the door open. This section of track got very hot to the touch due to the sun. The track joints opened up very slightly. I think the rail was expanding and the plastic roadbed was not. The locos still ran over the joints ok though. I guess that a 12x24 loop should have more than 1 lockon anyway. Doesn't MTH recommend every 10' of track for a power point(not sure of that one)

3.1 is the software version.  I have, and still use, 2 original issue TIUs, which have been upgraded to the latest version of the software.  I don't think your version supports quick set.

Is my old TIU capable of doing that with 3.10?

No, it is not.

Why not upgrade to 4.2?  Is there any reason you stick with 3.1?

Sounds like you have the acc dec rate set to low. turn it up to 25

Jini5;

You can download the upgrade from MTH and upgrade the TIU and Remote software yourself. You will need a couple cables. Make sure they are the right types.

I have done this with my system From 3.1 to 4.1 and the difference is amazing.

Also, you state you believe the track is clean. I can attest even if the track looks clean, it rarely is. I have to run my cleaning consist at least monthly. More in hi humidity as more stuff sticks to the rails.

Try giving the track a good scrubbing, I suspect you will be surprised how much black gunk you get off of it. This stuff blocks voltage and signal from the engine, signal is more critical, voltage you have an excess of to start with.

EXAMPLE:  Last week I pulled a rarely used engine off the storage to charge the battery and test. I started by letting it sit on powered track for an hour to put some charge in the battery. (It had been off track since the Christmas Tree loop was taken down.) It would not load into the DCS system until I scrubbed the track it was sitting on (No Engine to Load Error). After I scrubbed the 3' of track it was sitting on it was fine and ran the loop with no problems after loading into DCS.

NOTE: Upgrading from Rev 3 to 4 requires you reset the TIU and Remote. This will erase all the stuff you have in them like Engines, Switches, Routes, Custom Sounds, etc.

Clem;

If he scrolls the wheel and the SMPH reading does not change, that is not an accel or decel setting issue, the engine is either not getting the command or the TIU is not receiving the response from the engine.

Russell,

 Upgrading from Rev 3 to 4 requires you reset the TIU and Remote.

That's incorrect.

It is only necessary to reset the remote when upgrading from DCS 2.x.

The humidity at one point got up to 75% without us knowing about it.  The layout ran fine, but the track in the turnouts started to rust!

Installed a dehumidifier which keeps the trainroom at about 45-50% humidity with a temperature of about 68 degrees constant.

Resolved the problems.