I almost bought a marx steamer333 today

If it had the rolled canvas shades over the windows, it's a smoker. Either way the 333 is one heck of an engine. If it does not have the matching diecast tender, I would walk away. The tender alone is what makes the value. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE COUPLER. IMHO Without the diecast tender you're basically wasting your money. Depending on condition the tender can bring more than the engine. Again, what do I know? I'm just a babbling ol' phart .

It was pretty beat up paint wise anyway.Other than that the tender was in pretty good shape.

The 333 was Marx's flagship locomotive.  It pulls well, and smokes well, provided it is in good condition. There is also a non-smoking version.  The molds for the 333 where later used by K-Line.  While the die cast tender is highly regarded by collectors, it is a real dog to pull around. 

I picked the tender up and held it.It was not diecast to light.And as a guy who has a lot of mth steamers I otta know.

I have several heavy Lionel tenders that sit. One, a 2224W weighs as much as a locomotive. Has a box coupler. Forget what it came with. I would like a Marx 333.

I have a non-smoking #333 with the diecast tender. I run it on tubular track, and it tends to be slippery with a load of any kind. Marx could have used a version on Magnetraction. However, its a good-looking locomotive.

I have a bunch of 75 caliber and 80 cal musket balls that I have cubed using a hammer and used them to weight a slippery engine. I usually put on or two in the cab and, sometimes in the front.

What is important is what was the the price?

Bob

and no need to change the tender coupler, just use a Lionel tender with it. The 333 is a great locomotive.

It's a good looker, I never found it to be much of a puller though. Mine smoke pretty good. Yes the diecast tender is hard to find but not having it would not keep me from buying one.

The die-cast tender is "a real dog to pull around". Uh, as any tender weights far less than

a typical train, and that train has all kinds of wheels to drag around, this makes no sense at all. But I keep seeing it.

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The Marx 4-wheel truck - except the S-scale/O-gauge 3/16" trucks - are the same dimensions as a Lionel PW truck couplers (available all over daBay, etc) will clip right

on to Marx trucks; specialized tools needed are: needle-nose pliers.

Exotic stuff.

 This is a Marx tender (see trucks) and a Lionel PW coupler, clipped on the axles

just like on Lionel trucks.

The loco is my K-Marx 333/666-extended.

Caution!  There were at least two different mechanisms that were used under the 333 boiler shell.  I know that one of them simply will not work over Lionel switches.

In the version I'm familiar with, they made the geared section of the wheel equal in diameter to the wheel itself.  So the gear rubs on the guard rail of Lionel switches (unlike Lionel locos where the geared portion of the casting is recessed from the wheel rim.)  I never found a good solution to this problem, except to use Marx switches, or operate the loco on a mainline without switches.

I'm not a Marx expert, and I don't know whether these mechanisms were shared with the 666 or any other Marx loco.  -Ted

and that's why I have a loop with Marx switches so I don't have any trouble.

This is true of the older single reduction motor used in many Marx trains.  However, the 333, in all versions, is equipped with a more modern double reduction motor that should have no problems with most Lionel switches.  The 666 and 1666 also used a double reduction motor.

I have one Marx non-smoking 333 and one smoking 333.  Great runners.  I operate them on Lionel tubular track and Lionel Switches.  Neither engine has any difficulty negotiating the Lionel Switches.

This is true of the older single reduction motor used in many Marx trains.  However, the 333, in all versions, is equipped with a more modern double reduction motor that should have no problems with most Lionel switches.

Sorry Yukon Jack but I'm not speculating.  I OWNED a 333.  It came from a complete set that was like new in its original box, and was certainly unmodified.  It wouldn't run over any of our Lionel 5122, 1122, or prewar metal 1121 switches without derailing.  It ran fine on two different types of Marx switches.

The one I had was a non-smoker with the die-cast tender and metal passenger cars.  The set included a generous oval of "O34" track.  My 333 did run very smoothly for a parallel plate spur-geared motor; it was geared pretty low.  Based on paperwork in the set box, I believe the version I had was made between 1947 and 1956.  There might be a later version that was compatible with Lionel switches but I can tell you that mine was not.  

My loco was packed away long ago and I don't have access to it.  But some photos/videos would be very helpful here.  

See also this thread from 2013:

https://ogrforum.com/t.../marx-333-variations

Thanks,

Ted

I have a smoker with a plastic tender and sold a non-smoker that had the diecast tender. I've always heard that is how the sets were sold.

Hi, Ted.

I don't doubt you on this - Sorry did not mean to come across so strong!  There is a difference in the gearing used in the non-smoking and smoking version of the 333.  The non-smoker has the outside gearing on the middle wheel.  That could cause problems with some Lionel turnouts.  Don't have a smoker on hand now for look see, so will leave that for someone else!

Regards,

YJ

It was $40.00 dollars.By the time I get back to the little choochoo.Some one else will have it.Oh well thats just the way it goes sometimes.

my smoking 333 has had no trouble going thru Lionel 1121,1024, or O22 switches.

Ok, I think I figured it out.  I looked at a lot of pics on eBay and Google.  Maybe this is old news to some, but I can identify at least two distinct mechanisms and versions.

The "early" version doesn't have awnings over the cab windows.  The mechanism has a "shield" or thin plate over the intermediate gear, small idler gears between the driving wheels, and a full-thickness gear on the back of the center driving wheel.  This version does not seem to have smoke.  All of these seem to be sold with a die-cast tender lettered for the New York Central.  This is the version I owned, and it derailed and bumped through most types of Lionel O27 switches.  It did have the ability to run slowly and smoothly, albeit at a lower voltage than most of my Lionels.

What I'll call the "later" version has awnings on the cab windows.  The mechanism has an exposed intermediate gear above the main driver, and larger idler gears between the wheels.  The center driver is cast with two "shouldered" spur gears of different sizes.  The important part is that the outer spur gear is much narrower.  These later versions all seem to have smoke.  I found these listed with both metal NYC and plastic Santa Fe tenders.  I have no personal experience with this version.

I can imagine that with the narrower gear, the "later" version wouldn't have the same trouble hitting the flange guard on switches.  I'll speculate that this was a mid-1950s redesign which addressed the compatibility issue and added the smoke feature.  

I would love to know if the gear ratio is the same for both versions, or if some smoothness was sacrificed to allow the loco to negotiate Lionel switches.  Someone with both versions could find out, turning the wheels by hand and counting the armature poles as they go by.

I would also like to know whether the later version had a "neutral" position, or an ability to lock out the e-unit.  (The earlier version did not.)

Thanks to the original poster for starting an interesting discussion.  -Ted

My only 3 rail set as a lad was a Marx tinplate set that was given to me by the son some of my parent's friends. He'd "outgrown" trains. (The set had a NYC steam engine, a "Pacemaker" boxcar, a black gondola, and a "Pacemaker" caboose. There may have been more, those are the pieces that I can remember). I ran it and ran it and ran it and... you get the idea. Had it for several years.

Then I "graduated" to HO scale, so I gave my Marx set to my younger cousin. He ran it and ran it and ran it and ran it... you get the idea!

Marx made really neat toy trains. I always thought their lithograph F units were cool. I also like their little lithograph FA/PA(?) sets. They were neat! KCS, Monon... great stuff!

In fact, Marx made some great toys, and not just trains. I had a lot of Marx toys (like the "Big Bruiser" tow truck, the "Super Crane", some of their wind up stuff) and liked them all.  Marx was a very fond part of my childhood years.

It wouldn't take much for me to enjoy collecting Marx trains and toys. However, I really don't need ANOTHER hobby!!