Marx 333 variations?

Ted SOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Hi folks! I've had a 333 since I was a kid. My question is specifically about the mechanism... Mine has an additional steel stamping fastened to the left side of the frame which supports one end of the armature shaft, and covers the intermediate reduction gear. The wheels are widely spaced with small idler gears in between. The center driving wheel has one set of gear teeth on on its inner edge, equal to the diameter of the wheel. This is a non-smoker which came in a boxed set with three streamlined tin passenger cars and O34 track.

This loco is a smooth runner. By turning the wheels slowly with my thumb and counting the armature poles, I've determined that the gear ratio is about 11.7 to 1 (better than any Lionel steam loco except the mighty 773!) Unfortunately, the gear on the middle driver has problems with most Lionel switches .

Based on eBay photos, at least one other mechanism was used on the 333. The other variation lacks the steel stamping. The intermediate gear on the left side is exposed. Also, the middle driver appears thinner, with an inner and outer set of teeth. The idler gears between axles are larger.

I have several questions:

(1) Which version of the mechanism came first?

(2) What is the gear ratio of the 2nd mechanism with the exposed gear?

(3) Does the 2nd version with the exposed gear also have problems with Lionel switches?

(4) Can either version run on Ross or Atlas switches?

(5) Are there any workarounds (for either version) regarding the incompatibility with switches?

P.S.: Yes I know about the K-Line repros. I have had a few of these. They run smoothly and have great speed control even without fancy electronics. But I just can't get past the lack of flywheel action when stopping. Sometimes there's nothing like an original!

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and experience!

Ted

2/23/1312:03 PM

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colorado hirailerOGR Forum Member

I will try for 2 outta 5: The full diameter gear on driver version came first,

and was redesigned for THAT exact problem...so that it COULD get through Lionel

switches. Dunno about gear ratio..never bothered to check...supposedly the reduction

of gear diameter fixed the Lionel switch problem. Haven't tried on Ross or Atlas,

but I'd THINK? second version would work on those if work on Lionel. I'd think the

reengineering of gears would change the pulling power, top speed, etc....

2/23/133:03 PM

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AceOGR Forum Member

I also have a non-smoking Marx 333 loco which runs very well. I acquired it last year with a batch of neglected old trains and got it running well with just cleaning and lube. The rods were missing; I had to find replacements from a friend's parts stash. It appears a previous owner added lead weight between the frame rails at the back, so it can pull a pretty good train even with the heavy die-cast tender.

I had noticed wheel sparking on switches but didn't really investigate that until reading your post. Now I see that the wide gear inside the center driver (or perhaps all of the gears inside the drive wheels) can short on my O27 Lionel 1022 and 1122 switches, where the center-rail blob between the switch points is close to the running rails near the frog. The loco can charge through OK on the straight but doesn't like going through the curve of the switch. I have some other 1024 manual switches and they have better clearance so the gear doesn't short.

Just for clarification to other readers, these wheel gears are not larger diameter than the wheel tread like the so-called "fat wheels" on single-reduction motors. However, the gears are close to the same diameter as the wheel tread so they can have shorting problems through some switches.

I don't know about all the different versions of Marx, but I can see that I will reconsider my switches and layout where I run this Marx 333 loco.

Lionel 1022/1122 switch at left, Lionel 1024 switch at right, showing differences in clearance between metal center rail blob and running rail near the frog.