Imformal survey

Pay.

Undecided because the TCA has had what amounts to at least a decade long history of inept financial planning. The trend of decreasing membership has been evident for at least five years now, and what planning for it has been done? NONE. The aging of the membership has been a known fact for well over ten years and what planning has been done for it? NONE. Has the TCA shown any concrete plans for becoming a viable organization with 20,000 of fewer members? NO. How can an organization justify a 30% increase in dues when the annual rate of inflation for the last 5 years has been less than 2.5% per year? My indecision is based not on the value of TCA membership, but on how long am i willing to support an organization so lacking in long term financial vision.

jackson

TCA 84-21538

Yes, I wll pay, but the question is not who will or won’t pay the new dues but what is going to be done to get spending under control and make the TCA a viable organization for years to come. I was disappointed that Obara’s letter said virtually nothing about any programs going forward to carefully examine the entire organization to see where costs could be cut and spending controlled. If we continue in the direction we are going, we be having this conversation in another 5 years.

I am on the outside looking in but some of the things I would be looking at are:

Between the Headquarters News and the Collectors Quarterly, we have 9 publication a year, expensive to print and expensive to mail. I don’t feel an organization like TCA needs this many publications. Combine the publications into a single publication and publish twice a year. One issue should be wrapped around the National Convention. Put them on the web site as they are now and only mail to those who don’t have access to the web.

Maybe only a National Convention every other year. Does an organization strapped for cash really need an annual convention?.

Charge TCA members the regular admission to the Museum.

Cut the Museum and Headquarters staff to the absolute minimum. Tough to do, yes, but very necessary when an organization is in financial trouble.

I could add more but looking in from the outside doesn't give me the source of information I would need and maybe the BOD is already looking at some of the above items.

In summary what we have is a reasonably large organization with a very small group of very dedicated members making decisions on the behalf of many without really knowing what the many want, what they would be willing to do without to keep dues and cost under control and what ideas the many might have that would make TCA even a better organization. The entire membership should be surveyed.

The TCA now has a shrinking membership and lets face it, TCA is an older person organization and unfortunately older folks don't live forever and TCA will not survive without an infusion of younger members and that "ain't" going to happen unless the organization is trimmed down, costs reduced and costs controlled.

I hope I am wrong, but even with buffers built in, the current dues increase could easily have a negative impact. The only way to insure a viable future for TCA is to immediately start a total reorganization and overhaul of the organization, trimming it down to the bare essential desired by the membership, cutting every cost possible and putting in cost controls that don't allow costs to get out of control the way they have in the past few years.

Jim Lawson  TCA 88-28251

Yes, I will pay, 

PAY.....where would one get any better hobby support? Tom

We'll miss seeing some of these "don't pay" folks at York, of course, and at the OGR "Thursdays at Fridays" event.  But on the plus side, parking will be easier for the rest of us and the wait times at local restaurants will be reduced. 

Pay, worth it for the TCA Quarterly and website alone, for my interests.

So far looks like the prediction in the letter,maybe 10% loss of members at least on the Forum. Of course on the forum we have the most avid train people. Biggest nightmare for the TCA would be membership lost with no revenue increase.

Dale H

quote:

So far looks like the prediction in the letter,maybe 10% loss of members at least on the Forum. Of course on the forum we have the most avid train people. Biggest nightmare for the TCA would be membership lost with no revenue increase.

Most avid? Nothing against OGRR folks, I think this is a great board with a great bunch of people.

That written, until recently, folks had to actually make an effort to join the TCA. I doubt many will drop out over a fifteen dollar increase. The ten percent figure was probably nothing more than a WAG.

Pay

I just joined the TCA today so I can attend my first York in OCT.  For $50.00 I'm supporting a great org but more importantly I'll get to meet some great folks.  That seems like a pretty good deal for me considering a weekend fishing on my boat averages around $200.00 every weekend. 

There ya go.  And don't even talk about golf!

Thank God I gave that game up before I bought a hole in the water that I keep dumping money into.

Pay.

Drop out     adios

I am out.   No longer worth it.

I joined 8 years ago at the urging of a friend so that we could attend York together. He has been a long term member.  This is the only reason I joined, to attend York in October.  Out of the past 3 years I have not been able to attend twice and now again this year.

I'm not new at this hobby, I've been at it for 40 years. Got along without TCA for over 30 years.

I have been a member of LOTS, LCCA, and TTOS for many enjoyable years. 

Pay. No doubt about that, especially since I just found out that the next two conventions are somewhat close to where I live, and at least the 2014 one is during my summer vacation!

Pay.

Will pay in 2014, following that not sure.

It is not the rate increase, as others point out only $15.00 more dollars a year. It is the total spend to value -- I've let go of a few hobby magazine subscriptions and other memberships as there was just not much there for the money, when the magazines and memberships are added together it became several hundred dollars a year -- at that point I want to be sure it is not spending for spending's sake.

If after a couple years I don't see value the TCA will go. So for now still on the fence.

I agree with Cincinnati Western and I will add one more thing.  If I don't see an aggressive program put in place to reduce cost and curb spending I will probably leave in a couple of years.

It is interesting to note that in all of the responses many are in the TCA to enjoy York.  To date I have not seen anyone say they are members to enjoy the Museum.  Maybe it is time to spin the Museum off and make it a stand alone operation.

Jim Lawson 88-28251

That could be because this forum doesn't adequately represent a true cross section of the TCA's membership.  Years ago I thought it was odd that so many folks who stayed at the B&B's near York that my wife and I would stay at did NOT participate on this forum.  Some never even heard of it, yet they were long-time TCA members.  Nowadays, I'm not as easily surprised. 

But I hear what you're saying, nonetheless, as I too am seriously thinking of dropping TCA membership.  Just not convinced of the value anymore.  Lots of changes have occurred in our landscape these days, and York just doesn't seem as relevant to me.  It's a very personal observation, and if I'm part of the TCA's "anticipated 10% opt-out", then I'm OK with that.

David

quote:

That could be because this forum doesn't adequately represent a true cross section of the TCA's membership. 

This is a great board, still, I don't think it represents a cross section of the TCA's membership at all. But that doesn't tell us how the majority of the TCA members feel about the museum. As far as I know, the TCA has never polled its members. I believe the museum is located near the largest population of members, but I'd guess that the vast majority live too far away to visit the museum as a day trip. I guess one could plan a family vacation around a visit to the museum, but how many times would someone do that? I did it once.
So, IMHO it is not a benefit that most of us can use.
I don't want to see the museum close. That written, the TCA does need to find a way to make it less dependent on dues and member contributions. Overhead can only rise while membership shrinks.

Paid.

The Museum is the CROWN JEWEL of TCA.  I just don't see the point of saying this often on this Forum.  I do not think it is the shared opinion of many others on here.  It seems that the Museum gets credit for every ill of the Association.  Perhaps it is the "George W." of museums"??? Just a thought...not a complaint or a whine!!!

I will continue to pay.  My son and I planning to attend our first York in October.

He enjoyed his "Night at the (TCA) Museum" last summer.

Last week, Sunday, I took my grandson to do the train thing in Strasburg and we did hit the museum. I have been there a number of times but it was his first so I kind of got to see it thru his eyes, in a word he was underwhelmed. He did like the layouts and like to push the buttons but after about 20 minutes he was ready to go. The museum while interesting I have to admit as a tourist attraction for families it really some how misses the mark. The layouts tend to be small and rather plain, the gift shop almost nonexistant and the displays rather dry and straight forward. That being said it does have potential as an attraction in it's own right and as a vehicle for recruiting new TCA members but it is not being utilized to it's full potential. The lady at the front desk at first didn't know I was a TCA member and never even mentioned if I might be interested in joining, after I mentioned that I was a member she kept insisting that I didn't have to pay full price even after I told her to "let the museum have it".  I think many families coming to the museum are probably expecting something like what they have at the Choo Choo Barn or Roadside America (which would be a great idea but time, money, space and volunteers would be an issue) and many probably leave feeling like it really wasn't worth it ( I did hear several people with kids making similar comments). It's location is kinda out of the way and if it were built at the Strasburg RR location or was part of the Pa. RR Museum or was located next to Strasburgs ROW as a destination like the picnic area it probably would get more visitors but that's water under the bridge. They really do need to somehow increase it's "attractiveness" as a destination for families and groups and not as a "one shot" deal where they won't come back. Too bad they don't have a group of live steamers that could have somehow been connected to the museum with a track that goes thru the area.  Maybe back in the day it was more popular but it has to compete with a whole lot more in the area today and it comes in as a distant 4th on the railroad attractions in the area, I actually saw more cars in the parking lot at the Caboose Motel than at the museum so maybe 5th place.

I know at Strasburg they offer a Pa.RR Museum/Strasburg package deal and each has flyers about the other but I don't recall seeing any for the TCA museum at either the Pa museum or at Strasburg or the Choo Choo Barn but I may have missed them.

I don't have all the answers and maybe the TCA has looked at the issues I've brought up but it would be nice if the rank and file were included in any discussion on the museum, maybe one of us has an idea no one has thought of before. I'd like to help a bit out but financially and time-wise I'm limited to just how much I can help as many others are but that doesn't mean we can't at least pitch an idea or 2 instead of just standing by and watching it slowly go down the tubes and not saying a word. I'd like to not see it close but we can't let it bleed out on us either so how about it, does anyone have any ideas (other than closing it) that might help out?

Jerry

Such a response does not have to be one or the other.  I make sure I go to the Museum all day on the Wednesday before York each time.  Even though there are bandit meets, I prefer to spend Wednesday for the presentations, view the exhibits, and whatever other activities may go on throughout the day.

There are quite a few other members that I know do the same, or at least attend a good part of the day.  People start to look familiar after 13 years of doing it! (I did not discover the Museum activities until a few years after I joined and started going to York)

I will admit I missed the Museum a couple times in that span when the OGR tours used to go to Weaver or MTH, as they were the same day. 

BTW, if the museum were spun off, would you be OK with them charging the business office rent for the offices in the building?  I know no one recently in the thread has called for closure of the facility, but in the past when people have, they forget that their would be some non-interested party landlord for the offices.  Rent generally goes up, so that would be a new factor of an unknown cost increase each year.

I'll admit the line on the pie chart splitting the costs for Museum vs. Business Office/Library could be a fuzzy one, but those costs are not insignificant either.

-Dave

Pay!

So you're going to run a "TCA Members" forum and not be a member of the TCA?
You may need to update your forum description to "Run by a former member of TCA."

I dropped my tca membership 2 years ago, I only had it to attend york. $35 a year for two shows was just not worth it anymore. I could only attend on saturdays the last year I went, and the dealers were packing up by 11am. If the tca opened up saturday to the public, it would make more money for the tca and make the dealers happier that they could sell more and open up a whole new world of products that a hobby shop just does not have the room or the money to display. 65% of people want to take it home today instead of hearing we can order it for you.

More public people attend, more people to join the hobby.

Since you have not been a member of the TCA for a while, you aparrently have not read the article in the Train Collectors Quarterly as to why the York Meet will never be opened to the public.

Tax issues and agreements between the Eastern Division and the PA Dept of Revenue make the York Meet a "member's only" meet.

quote:

I dropped my tca membership 2 years ago, I only had it to attend york.

You, and a lot of other people. (only belong to attend York)

The show can never be opened to the public.

Were it possible to open the show, doing so would be foolish. All those folks who only belong to attend York would drop out.

I like the York show, but I haven't attended every one since I've been a member. I'd belong to the TCA even without the show.

Guys,

My membership papers are in (have come in the mail).....I will not wait to-up this time! I value the membership and the cameraderie found here. Even if a few of you are getting crusty! Just kidding!

Mike Maurice

correction: for up read re-up

Pay But under dures - Denied freedom of action!(and not until next June!)

Richard

There have been a number of significant observations posted regarding the challenges (primarily the aging demographics and lower membership numbers that directly relate to a decline in a source of funds) that the TCA will need to address over the coming years.

I joined initially to attend York and have experienced some other membership benefits over the past 15 years.  I enjoy seeing the manufacturer's current and planned products and having the ability to ask them questions.  I also enjoyed what use to be the ability to almost one stop shop at the York show/meet.  But there comes a time when discretionary spending choices need to be made.  With the newly added increased dues cost and related fixed costs of attending York, combined with the significant decline in manufacturers and dealers/table holders attending over the past few years, I think that I will not be renewing next year.

I'll pay it.