Inactive engines on a running lashup

Just scroll to the engine and click on it. It then moves to the active list. 

That's the problem. I ran my lashup earlier done that and it said "engine not on track" even though I just got done running that engine in a lashup. I just tried again and now it says the address for the #5 engine for the lash up that was running 15 minutes ago can't be found and the lashup is  "inactive". I did blow a breaker on the circuit that my TIU was wired to. I reset the breaker but could that have scrambled my TIU. Plus one of the engines in the lashup is in the inactive engine. I'm having a hard time explaining this by typing it out- There just seems to be a whole lot going wrong. I have run my other lashup and have no problem with it.

If someone would like to call me my number is 3146083075. It would be easier to explain over the phone.

Thanks, Don

try rebuilding the lashup and also try changing the numbers to anything higher then 9

I just tried moving the lashup to the "active" file and it worked. I started up the lashup and ran it but one of the engines in the lashup is still in the "inactive" file. I pressed the thumbnail to move it to "active"and I get no response at all.

Good idea!and also try changing the numbers to anything higher then 9Why?

Bigdodgetrain, How do rebuild a lashup?  I've got Barry's book but I don't see where to rebuild a lashup.

Sorry Barry, I didn't mean to leave you out. I want your input too.

Trestleman1 posted:

Bigdodgetrain, How do rebuild a lashup?  I've got Barry's book but I don't see where to rebuild a lashup.

That sounds to me  like  deleting the lash-up from the remote  and starting over. 

Yes how exactly do you delete the lashup?

Oh sure you would have to  ask .. I don't have a layout or remote handy but... Menu/ System.  engine set up/ delete engine ... select the lash up...

 

OK I deleted the lashup but now engine #8114 (one of the two engines in the lashup I deleted) is not on my active or inactive screens. The first  time I tried to add it- it said "out of RF range" but the engine that was one foot down the track started right up. I tried to add it again and I got "engine in remote" but it still doesn't show up in either the active or inactive screens. 

 

Oh Boy... Going from bad to worse.. What engine is it that was one foot down the track started right up.... It seems you might have had 2 engines with the same ID number.

How to fix the problem?   I would delete the lash-up again   and then delete the  engine that started up on it's own .

Using a programming track,  try an  add the questionable engines back... It's probably a good time to make sure the batteries (if equipped) are up to par. After adding  back, remove track power for about a minute and then  start the engine up again. If they  start up ok the battery is probably ok.

 

 Put the lash-up aside for now and get your engine back in the remote... The missing one and the one that started up on it's own.

You may have gotten a DCS ID# mis-assigned on one or both of the engines. Try this:

1. Delete both engines from the remote. This will also delete any lashups of which they are a member.
2. Turn off track power for a minute and, while you do so, turn the remote off and then back on again.
3. Place one of the engines on the track and turn on track power.
4. Add the engine.
5. Start the engine up making sounds and then immediately turn off track power. Count how many seconds sounds persist. If they don't persist for 6-7 seconds, either charge the engine's battery until they do or replace the battery with a new, charged one.
6. After 30 seconds, turn track power back on again and attempt to start up the engine.
7. If the engine starts up fine and sounds persist for 6-7 seconds after turning off track power, repeat the above for the second engine.
8. If the remote cannot find the engine, repeat from step #1 until it can.
9. After both engines pass the above test, build a new lashup.

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This and a whole lot more about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

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This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! Get the free TMCC & Legacy Addendum here!

Barry, I did what you said. When I tried to add each engine separately per your instructions, the remote looked for them for about 20 seconds and "out of RF range" popped up on the screen. I started up my other lashup with no problem plus tried another engine and they all started and stopped with no problem.

Where are we at now?   Do you still have  2 engines that have not been added to the dcs remote?   It sound to me like you're trying to add engines with other engines receiving power on the layout... That's not going to work , use a small programming or test engines one engine  at a time.

you may have to try the recover engine feature . Has to be TIU #1 with only the one engine receiving power.

Menu/ System/ Engine set up/ recover engine.... Good luck, It goes by fast and the engine doesn't automatically add to the remote. It says engine recovered... now it should add .

took all engines off track. Put one of the two that I want to add to the remote on the track turned off the remote and turned off track power. Waited a minute then turned on the track power and remote then tried to recover the engine. It said "no engine recovered". So I tried adding it and it said "no engine to add".

How about the other engine? did it add?  I wonder how your track signal is? 

By the way- I only have 1 TIU which was updated to 6.1 by a authorized MTH technician last weekend in anticipation of going to Wifi.

 

I'm out of ideas....Sorry it didn't work out so far... Hang in there someone will get you fixed up. 

The other engine didn't add either. My track signal is 10 and I checked to make sure I had 18V on the track.

Exactly which engines are the ones that the remote cannot see? Do these engines have 2-Rail/3-Rail and/or DCS/DCC switches and, if so, are they set correctly?

I only have 1 TIU which was updated to 6.1

Was the remote also updated to 6.1?

Just a heads up- I let my Z4000 sit there at 18V  with one of my problem engines on the track. An hour later I tried to add it and it was added with no problem. I then put the other problem engine on the track and did the same thing. It added with no problem. I then rebuilt my lashup with these 2 engines with no problems. I have no idea what changed, but I'm happy to be running again. Another mystery of the universe!!!!!

Barry, yes the remote was updated also. Thanks for keeping tabs on this thread. Like I said I have no idea what changed but everything is running now. Thanks for your effort.

Don

Don,

Sounds like the batteries in the engine were low and they charged up when setting on the track for an hour. Did you check to see if engine sounds played for at least 6 to 7 seconds when you turn off transformer power when having the problem?

 I have no idea what changed, but I'm happy to be running again. Another mystery of the universe!!!!!

Yep! it's called DCS....

Joe, These engines are 3 months old so I didn't think it was the batteries but just to make sure I did turn off the transformer and the engine sounds lasted for 6-7 seconds. 

As I shut every thing down last night the lashup was working and both engines in the lashup were on the active list. I started up again this morning and the lashup I had rebuilt was still there. The lashup started up but both engines were in the inactive list. I was able to move one of the two engines onto the active list but the second one (NS6965) says "engine not on track" even though it's still sitting there idling. I tried to shut it off by hitting the shut down button for the lash up but it still won't shut down and since it's on the inactive list I can't shut it down individually.The other engine did. It looks like the only way I will be able to shut this engine off is by turning off track power.

Barry,Do these engines have 2-Rail/3-Rail and/or DCS/DCC switches and, if so, are they set correctly? I haven't touched anything since I bought them. I'm not sure how to tell if something changed. It's #20-20597-1 

Thanks, Don

I just turned off track power and brought it back up. The lashup is still there and starts up. Both engines are on the active list. When I try to shut the lashup off NS6965 will not shut off the other engine does. When I try to turn off NS6965 individually( now that it's on the active list) it won't shut off. It just sits there idling. Once again the only way to turn it off is by turning off track power.

Again I just turned off track power and brought it back up. The lashup is still there and starts up. Both engines are on the active list. I started the lashup with no trouble and turned off the lashup and both engines shut down like they're supposed to. I have no idea what's going on. 

I don't know as  well but we know lash-ups must see the watch dog signal to function,  The watch dog goes any time the voltage is raised above zero on the input side of any tiu channel .

Gregg, "The watch dog goes any time the voltage is raised above zero on the input side of any tiu channel ."

I just read the portion of Barry's book on watchdog signal. I don't understand it very well. My startup procedure should be to power up my Z4000 ahead of time and have 18V on the tracks before turning on my remote that way I get the watchdog signal?

Should I wait 44 seconds or so after powering up the tracks before I start any engines?

Trestleman1 posted:

Should I wait 44 seconds or so after powering up the tracks before I start any engines?

I think that's a great  idea since our new proto-3 engine have capacitors instead of batteries. This would give the engine time to charge up the capacitors.

George,

The watch dog goes any time the voltage is raised above zero on the input side of any tiu channel .

That's close enough for fixed channels. However, a better way to state when the watchdog appears is:

"When voltage at the output of a TIU channel changes from zero."

Barry,

I had everything shut down. No power to track, TIU and remote. I powered up the TIU then powered up the Z4000. The remote was still off. I was going to wait a minute to make sure the watchdog signal had time. The lashup started up on it's own and started slowly moving down the track. I powered up the remote and was able to stop the lashup and shut it down. The good part was both engines were still in the active section. After waiting a minute I started the lashup again it will sit there and idle but when I dial up the speed the lashup won't move.

 

After waiting a minute I started the lashup again it will sit there and idle but when I dial up the speed the lashup won't move.

That's a classic symptom of the lashup missing the watchdog signal.

Try this:

• Power up the TIU using the Aux. Power port.
• Power up the remote.
• If the TIU doesn't use banana plugs to connect the transformer to the TIU channel input, insert a switch inline between the transformer's Hot terminal and the TIU's red channel input terminal, and turn the switch off.
• If the TIU does use banana plugs to connect the transformer to the TIU channel input, disconnect the Hot wire from the red TIU channel input terminal.
• Turn on the Z4000 and turn up the Z4000's throttle.
• Turn on the Hot wire switch or plug in the Hot wire's banana plug.
• Try to operate the lashup.

Barry, I didn't have a switch  so I thought I would power up the TIU using the aux input ( mines set up that way) . My remote was on and I powered up the z4000 and very quickly moved both handles to 18V then used the remote and started the lashup and it worked. The lashup ran forward and backward. If it hadn't worked I would have run out and got a switch.This seemed to start after I had the remote & TIU upgraded to 6.1. Would 6.1 be more sensitive to the watchdog signal? 

I'll be very careful about how I start up my engines and lashups  up from now on.

Thanks again for all you do for us not so technical operators,

Don

Would 6.1 be more sensitive to the watchdog signal? 

Yes, DCS 6.1 has improvements to the watchdog signal as opposed to older releases.