Interim Project Super detailed Santa Fe E6s, Update, Power A unit started.

Aha - One of my 'most favorists' locomotives!  Will be watching closely Ron. You do great work my friend...

Hi Guys,

What catalog/s were the Lionel Legacy Santa FE E-6 diesels featured in.  I'm trying to look in catalogs up on the Lionel website and some of the catalogs will not open for me.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Steam Guy posted:

Hi Guys,

What catalog/s were the Lionel Legacy Santa FE E-6 diesels featured in.  I'm trying to look in catalogs up on the Lionel website and some of the catalogs will not open for me.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

 

2004 Steve, I think.

Thanks Ron,

But weren't those TMCC?  Have they been done in Legacy?  Or anytime after 2004?  Are those shells that you just acquired from the 2004 run?

Steve

Steam Guy posted:

Thanks Ron,

But weren't those TMCC?  Have they been done in Legacy?  Or anytime after 2004?  Are those shells that you just acquired from the 2004 run?

Steve

 

Yes they were TMCC, not legacy. I ordered these shells from North Lima. No idea what their build date is.

Ron 

Many thanks Ron

My Milwaukie donor E6s are in. Fortunately they work as promised.

So you'll have them done by the weekend?

Laidoffsick posted:

So you'll have them done by the weekend?

Man, I really wish that were doable. I'm going to take my time. I even got Blumberg's patent drawings for these trucks, but it looks as though lionel did an excellent job. I'll probably add sander lines and that is about it.

Did you try lowering the A unit and if so how?

Ron

I did not lower them. Looking at my A unit, the front sits higher than the rear and I'm not sure why. I never really considered lowering it back when I fixed the pilot, but I at least need to make it level. 

I had to lower the Legacy B dummy unit just to get it to match the powered A, and it does now. The B unit won't go any lower than I have it now because its a different design than the E6. So if I lower the A, it won't match the B. 

I'm curious if your AA set sits the same as mine because the powered and dummy are the same..... quite a bit higher in the front. I really notice the bigger gap between the shell and the trucks in the front.

From your video those A units look to have the same stance as mine. Maybe it's just an illusion but I never measured it....at least not yet.

Ok, you have my attention! I have 5 Lionel E6 / E5 units waiting to upgraded details ! 

What are you thoughts on closing the gap between units and those less than desirable short diaphragms?

BTW, would you be willing to sell a few of those little cylinder smoke stacks from the Milwaukee shell?

I seem to have lost a few of them.

J daddy, not sure yet how I am gonna do this.

Usually build my own drawbars between units and have a lot of spare diaphragms around to use.  I am gonna sell the shells intact. I would use brass tubing to replace stacks.

Check out the posts from Norm and Central Fan on their sharks and my super detail Alco PA posts for some ideas. If you do not have fairly broad curves it might not be effective anyway.

Ron

yes, the dreaded brass tubing...

I did use dummy weaver couplers with great success on Lionel F and PA units. I replace only the dummy side coupler and leave the electro coupler on the other side. But the E6 I am going to rethink it, what diaphragms are you using?

The last picture is the before pic.

I have been able to run on O72 curves with no issue.

but most of my layout is 0100.

You can see the stance I referred to here. The front of the A unit sits a lot higher than the rear for some reason.

I still need to body mount the front step. When I do that, I'll take a look and see why the front sits so high. If I could drop it low enough, I wouldn't need the spacer between the pilot and shell.... but then it wouldn't match the B unit, and that is already bottomed out as low as it will go. I already trimmed the skirts to clear the side frames as it is.  

The B unit I bought had broken 3 rail couplers and missing diaphragms so I used a folder paper one from Keil-Line in between the A & B to allow tighter curves while coupled so close. Plus they take paint well, unlike the rubber ones I was going to use. 072 and cross overs are no issue for these.

J Daddy,

I suggest you follow Laidoffsick's example on the diaphragms.  I have the shell off the power unit and I'm trying to figure out how to disconnect the power trucks. The height of the frame over the trucks is determined by two diecast flanges on the truck. Trim them and I can lower everything.

I guess I'll have to pull the dummy apart to figure this out.

So any details / pics on making the closed pilot? 

J Daddy posted:

So any details / pics on making the closed pilot? 

 

If I can lower the frame on the trucks, I'll use the stock one and find a way to bolt it on. It'll be sometime before I get there.

The front pilot came that way, with the doors closed. I bought a spare just to have one. I just cut the truck mounting tab off and screwed it to the frame with a spacer. If Ron can lower them enough, he won't need the spacer.

OK, the trucks are coming off and I wanted to show how detailed the side frames really are. They are weathered so the detail comes out. Ater I paint them ATSF silver, they will be weathered to pick out the detail again.

Also with the truck removed one can see the limiting flanges I mentioned. Going to grind these about 3/32 to start.

Yeah that's an entirely different frame setup from the Legacy E7s. Might be an easy lowering job for sure.

Laidoffsick posted:

Yeah that's an entirely different frame setup from the Legacy E7s. Might be an easy lowering job for sure.

We'll see Doug. Hope so. Also, my powered A unit chassis is really bowed upward making the tail ride low. that may be the problem. I'm gonna brace my chassis with brass square tubing where I can.

Yup just like mine. They must all sit like that. Looking forward to seeing your solution so I can copy it 

Lowering the frames.

Picture one, measuring the distance the frame needs to be lowered to meet the pilot. Approx. 3mm.

Picture two, the truck height limiter trimmed. I use a digital caliber and cutoff wheel.

Trying to be very careful.

As I have been unsuccessful at getting Sunset to do early E units I am putting my shells on Sunset E7 chassis.

I finished lowering and painting the side frames and fuel tank for the dummy A. Everything turned out OK, but the British term fiddly doesn't even come close to the labor that goes into getting these trucks off and on. I think the motored unit will be a nightmare.

Uh huh... thats why mine still sits the way it does 

Doug, I'm so darn stubborn and of course, retired so that helps.

Next challenge is putting on scale steps and fitting the pilot.

Ron

Laidoffsick- where did you buy the E6 pilots? - thanks

Ron - how goes the war? Yeah those trucks and the F unit trucks will make you take up a new hobby...

The lead unit comes with the closed door pilot. I bought another one from Lionel parts dept

The spacer was fabricated from styrene sheet, either .100 or .125. The pilot doesn't match the contour of the body exactly so you have to pick your alignment spots.

Our college room mates are here for a couple of days so I'll be back to it in a couple of days. I've got the steps figured out.

Laidoffsick posted:

The lead unit comes with the closed door pilot. I bought another one from Lionel parts dept

The spacer was fabricated from styrene sheet, either .100 or .125. The pilot doesn't match the contour of the body exactly so you have to pick your alignment spots.

Thanks I was getting confused with the Burlington E5 I was working on... it has the monster claw coming through the pilot...

J Daddy posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

The lead unit comes with the closed door pilot. I bought another one from Lionel parts dept

The spacer was fabricated from styrene sheet, either .100 or .125. The pilot doesn't match the contour of the body exactly so you have to pick your alignment spots.

Thanks I was getting confused with the Burlington E5 I was working on... it has the monster claw coming through the pilot...

That doesn't look like a Burlington E5A, i.e. no fluted stainless steel sides. Looks more like an E3A/E6A painted silver.

Today working on the dummy A pilot. First one has to trim the pilot and if you wish, adding kadee coupler.

Cut the pilot as shown.

I had to grind the flange off the kadee cover plate then mounted  through existing cutout. Also the mounting for the lobster claw on the front truck will have to be ground back for clearance.

Now the body is mounted with appropriate steps. Mounting the pilot next.

Finishing the pilot. As Laidoffsick showed, the pilot is a little under radius at the ends to mate with the shell. He made a spacer and blended it to the shell and pilot.

I decided to try something different. I sliced into the back of the pilot thinking I could spread it the approx. 1/16 th or so required for each side and it worked.

Be very careful doing this as the castings are brittle and one can snap them.

Is the shell now low enough to mount the pilot directly or will you still need a spacer?

Laidoffsick posted:

Is the shell now low enough to mount the pilot directly or will you still need a spacer?

Hi Doug,

It is low enough that the pilot sits at prototype height. However, I realized the neat pilot mounting of the kadee is not going to work, as a long train will surely pull the pilot off. Soooo, I'll have to frame mount the Kadee. Another darn step.

Ron