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So, my Legacy Sante Fe Northern went back to Lionel under warranty to have its smoke unit repaired.  I got it back, everything worked fine and it saw maybe two hours of run time....until about a month or so ago.

Everything was working fine until the smoke stopped coming out of the stack. (Whistle Steam, sound and everything else worked 100%).

I went the "blow compressed air into the smoke stack" route....and that worked great.  (Better than I imagined, actually.)  Attached is the video of my prodigious smoke output.

Then, after a nice two hour run session, the smoke stopped working.  All other features work.  But now, I seem to hear a fan motor running at continuous MAX RPM...with no smoke coming of the stack.  Any unused smoke fluid appears to have been spit out of the stack in liquid form.

So, my guess is that smoke unit #2 is now junk....and I'm inclined to have Stockyard Express install an MTH smoke unit in my otherwise fine Lionel steam engine.

But, before I do so, I have to ask this question:  Is my smoke unit definitely toast....or is there something else possibly wrong here?

Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance for your help!

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Videos (1)
3751 GOOD SMOKE
Last edited by Berkshire President
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I presume you added fluid several times during the 2 hr run session. These smoke units are probably only good for about 5 minutes of running on high before they need more fluid added.

 

Have you tried a reset? In addition to what catnap said, if you stick your nose over the stack you should be able to feel the heat if its still heating up.

 

Could be the regulator, smoke units usually smoke like crazy right before the regulator goes out, then you get nothing.

 

This doesn't explain the fan, but if the fan is operating its probably hard to tell if its going too fast. Usually with lionel they stop working altogether.

 

 

If its still under warranty, might be still worth the aggrivation of sending it back. Send Lionel an email with all of the specifics regarding the recent repair. Theres a chance they might pickup your end of the shipping this time.

 

Judging by the video and the events you describe I'd think that the AC regulator has gone, which is a fairly frequent occurrence with Legacy engines. If that's the case however you should sense the tell-tale scent of a burned out electrical component, which you don't mention.

 

The heat generated by having high voltage fed to the smoke unit heating element might have damaged the fan motor itself or the circuit that controls it. I think you will only know for sure by having a look at the smoke unit yourself or getting someone who can do repairs to look for you.

 

You mention substituting an MTH smoke unit. I don't think that this is necessarily easy or will leave you with a whistle smoke function. In your position I'd get a local repair person to replace the Lionel parts. Yes, I know they might fail again but I have had better luck with replacement Lionel smoke units than the factory-installed versions.

 

I've worked on a number of these, and putting an MTH smoke unit in there would be a real challenge, I sing with the chorus and recommend just fixing it.  It wouldn't affect the whistle smoke, that one uses a separate smoke unit for the whistle.  However, I don't see this as a realistic change in any case.

 

The times I've seen the smoke regulator short out, the smoke unit has only lasted about 30 seconds before it was a goner, both times I had to replace not only the regulator, but the smoke unit PCB, resistor, and wick.  Pumping about 40 watts into a smoke unit doesn't allow for long life!

 

The smoke unit is driven from the RCMC in the Legacy Northern, I haven't seen one of those fail, so I'm not sure exactly what the failure mode might be.  I don't think they use triacs on that board, so it may have a different failure mode.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
Did you get the 3 blinking cab lights again?

Are you sure its not out of smoke? Spitting fluid out is normal, happens to mine all the time. Thats why guys who weather their engines, usually keep the smoke unit off.

That amount of smoke, especially after Lionel worked on it, is not unreasonable. You know the fan motor works, but is the resistor getting hot? That's the question of the day.

Hi Guys,

 

This engine is not equipped with a smoke regulator, like John says the smoke units are driven from the RCMC board. The only thing you can do is reprogram the engine with a different ID/ engine number and see if that unlocks the RCMC board. If not the RCMC has to be replaced.

 

John the RCMC doesn't really fail, it shuts off the output to the smoke units, usually because the units are overfilled with smoke fluid. The last 4 engines I've repaired had enough smoke fluid in them for 3 months of use. Most everyone is overfilling there smoke units.

 

Alex

When the fan went, the heater burned a crisp imprint into the compressed fiberglass wicking.  That stuff is junk.  If you are hearing the fan, feel for hot air coming out of the stack.  If you have that and I believe you may, install the rope wicking and you will be very happy.

 

I remove all the stock wicking that comes with my engines and put the rope (shredded) wicking in.  I see your issue many times.

 

No AC smoke reg in that engine.

Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry
Originally Posted by Alex M:

Hi Guys,

 

. . . the RCMC doesn't really fail, it shuts off the output to the smoke units, usually because the units are overfilled with smoke fluid. The last 4 engines I've repaired had enough smoke fluid in them for 3 months of use. Most everyone is overfilling there smoke units.

 

Alex

Alex,

I suspect I am in that category for fear of running dry and equally damaging the heating elements. I wish there were a rule-of-thumb as to when to add fluid. I normally add 10 drops of so every other run, but sometimes the runs are not that long.

 

Also, if I think that there isn't enough steam (or smoke) being generated, I add more fluid; but now I see that it is entirely possible that the apparent low volume of steam may be because there may be too much fluid already!

 

With all the technology available, it doesn't seem that it would be that daunting to insert a couple of electrodes (wires) into the wick to measure the resistance between them, and correlate this with the moisture content (humidity indicator). Then, when the low threshold of moisture were reached, an LED or an announcement from the crew (crew talk) would alert the operator that it is time to add fluid. 

 

Alex

Last edited by Ingeniero No1

Thanks to everyone for all of your replies.  Tax season has kept me from replying back sooner.  My apologies.

 

I do get the three blinking lights...again.  And I've had no shortage of smoke fluid added.  When I free up, I'm going to stick my nose over the smoke stack to see if I can smell anything.  I also like the idea of programming the loco using a different number.

 

Once I exhaust all of my easy fixes, I'll go the routes suggested by Fitz, Alex, and GRJohn.

 

Thanks again, everyone!

What hit home with your post is that is my only problematic locomotive as well.  Knock on wood (or my Toshiba laptop) but I've had no other issues with any of my TMCC or Legacy units, save for the Atlas NKP 910...which has been temperamental from day one....and is obviously not a Lionel "issue".
 
 Originally Posted by jojofry:

I add a lot of fluid to mine .. The only engine I ever had muti issiues with is this same engine .. It had a bad cord and bad motor. I changed them motor(mth) and cord and never had anymore problems . This engine was made when I think they had those really bad motors.

 

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