Is there a need for a "new and improved" Z4000?

I have only one comment related to the MTH Z4000: IF IT AIN'T BROKE,,,,DON"T FOOL WITH IT!!!!

I have had no problems and have no improvement I would like on the Z4000.  As long as you run conventional it is hard to think of any way to improve it except - a Z5000 would be cool.  I do occasionally run hard into that Z4K's 10 amp breaker limit (see the thread on trying to run a shortest and longest passenger train). 

 

I ordered a ZW-L today - supposed to arrive on Tuesday.  When I've played with it some I may have a different opinion, although since I don't run DCS or Legacy or TMCC so I am not sure all those ZW-L features will do me any good.  I really expect the ZW-L to basically be a "Lionel Z4000" but better looking.

I really like the Z4K but all the buttons for ps1 support is no longer needed and could save some manufacturing costs getting rid of them or repurposing them.

My Z-4000 suits me just fine.  I expect it will continue to serve well for the remainder of my lifetime, so don't really need another transformer or more features.

 

Now, if I win the lottery (not likely since I don't play), and get a much larger home with a humongous basement, all bets are off.

About the only thing I can think of would be a variable-voltage accessory tap for accessories that run better if you fine-tune the voltage. I just use an extra transformer for this, but some customers might prefer to have it built in. Also maybe an extra, dedicated accessory jack to power the TIU if you want to run the TIU off constant power rather than fixed-1. 

Don't have any need for any upgrades, sure won't be replacing it with anything else.

About the only thing to add to the Z4000 would be a dedicated TIU power port. Having the PS1 programming is nice, but there aren't too many of them left running-- Perhaps MTH could make a PS1 programmer box using the DCS Commander enclosure?

i would like to set the throttles once and be able to turn it off and on from power strip or wall outlet. the thing is so reliable I don't need to touch it.

Improved voltage regulation.

 

I have two Z4K’s, and when I first turn them on, one is loaded to around 1 to 1.5 amps for each of its two outputs, and the other to around 3 to 4 amps for each of its two outputs.

 

I set the voltage of the one with the 1 to 1.5 amps at 20 volts, and the one with the higher load at 18 volts.

 

Then, when the trains are running, the voltage will vary (for both) between 17 and 20 volts according to the load. Occasionally, the load will creep up to 6 to 7 amps, and the voltage may drop to 16 volts.

 

It would be nice if I could set them at 18 volts and they would stay there regardless of the load; that is, within their specified 10-amp specified load handling capability.

 

Alex

Your z4000s vary a bit more in voltage as the load increases than mine seem to do.  You seem to be saying in extreme cases you get a drop from 20 to 16?   Are you taliking about the voltage the Z4000's report on their meters or as you measure on the track?  Generally, up to the 10 amp limit, on my meters, I never see more than a 1 to 1.5 volt drop in voltage as the meters report no matter how much load I put on them.  The sole exception is one train I have with four Pullmore motors and enough incadsecent lighted cars (12) tha tthe combo pulls right at the Z4000's 10 amp limit.  with this, I see a drop from about, say 17, to 15 when I run it, but never more than that 2 volts at the extreme.   

The club has four and they've been very reliable. My personal one has been fine. As heavy as they are, I can't see adding more throttles or circuits to it. If you need more power or more throttles, an additional Z4K would be a more practical approach.

Variable voltage control on the accessories output. G

Lee,

"You seem to be saying in extreme cases you get a drop from 20 to 16?"

 

Yes, Lee; that is correct.

 

If I set any of the outputs to 20 volts while it shows a draw of 0.6 amps, it will go to 16 volts when the draw increases to 6 amps or so. I try to keep the maximum draw to less than 7 amps so I don't have to fiddle with the handles.

 

You see, I can tell by the sound or speed of the trains that the voltage has dropped to 16v from perhaps 18v or 19v when they enter a district that is supplied by a TIU channel that supplies other districts & track blocks with ‘live’ trains on them.

 

I have the two Z4K's and two TIU's. The eight available TIU channels supply 20 districts - 10 per main track of the double main, with each district being between 25 and 30 feet long. They also supply 20 sidings and spurs.

 

I do have 'local' relays so I can turn any of the main line districts, sidings and spurs off from the control panel. I rarely turn any of main line districts off, but do turn off any sidings with passenger trains and spurs with engines to minimize current draw. Still, I do have the aforementioned condition.

 

No big deal, but I still wish that the voltage would stay at the level as initially set by the handle.

 

Thx!

 

Alex

Love the Z4000 but it needs upgrading with with two main circuit breakers, one for each handle.

Also, put the breakers on the front business end, not in a hard to reach spot on the rear like the new ZW-L.

My two transformers are in a tight spot, immovable with lots of wires up from underneath. this makes rear mounted breakers for me impossible to see and hard to reach..

Joe 

My 2 Z4K's are the best.  No improvements or changes necessary. 

Phil

I love my Z4000 , but a 500 watt output with four track handles would be awesome, especially with added DCS capability. Just the people on here saying I love my Z400,BUT my ZW-L is coming soon is reason enough for MTH to upgrade. My Z4000 is first production run, so I also wish I had better handle feel.

two main circuit breakers, one for each handle.

Excellent idea! Our club uses Z4K's, and it is a nuisance when a derailment or equipment failure on one line shuts down two. It would be nice not to have to restart two lines when only one actually has a problem. 

 >>> As example, my big loop is 140 feet around.  I feed it twelve times (about every twelve feet), <<

 

The MTH Z-4000 is an excellent performer and it does not need any improvements. This year I will be needing another transformer as my layout grows. The price of the ZW-L makes it a non-starter for me, so another Z-4000 it will be.

 

I do not understand why the ZW-L has analog gauges which are more difficult to read than digital displays.

 

I do not understand why the ZW-L has analog gauges which are more difficult to read than digital displays. 

 I suppose that's a matter of personal opinion.  For me, the analog meters are easier to read - they show the relative position between the minimum and maximum values in a format that is visually quick to grasp.  I suspect that is why many automobile manufacturers have stayed with (or gone back to) analog speedometers even with digital odometers and digital data feed from the turning road wheel.

 

Having said that, I think the Z4K is a solid performer and will maintain its place in the market.  But who knows what technical enhancement(s) MTH might find for it?  I didn't know about toroidal transformers until Lionel introduced them in the ZW-L.  And there are probably things with DCS that MTH that could integrate into a new model. 

I don't own and cannot afford either of them, Z-4000 or ZW-L.

That said I hear lots of folks saying get rid of the PS1 programming. I disagree, having several of those engines in my fleet.

I do however agree that a direct power feed for the TIU would be a nice add, separate breakers on each throttle should be standard as well.

And how about a Switch, DCS mode and Conventional mode. Set it to DCS and you do not have to reset the throttles to off every time you power it up.

I agree.  Great idea.  I understand the ZW-L has something like that.

That sounds like a good option, though I'd prefer it just function as a switch to change the behavior.  I'd not want it to rely on the DCS signal being present to work that way, then it would also have the improved functionality if it's running power for a TMCC/Legacy layout.

 

As to the original question, I would just wonder how much longer they can produce these with parts availability potentially becoming a problem.  (though maybe they have been evolving internally over the years, I don't know)  Supposedly the remote to go with the Z4k will no longer be available due to this issue, so that's what planted the seed of that thought in my head.

 

-Dave

There was another thread about transformer sine waves. IIRC all the MTH transformers use a chopped sine wave except for their Z which is smooth sine. 

 

Lionel's video had the TMCC & Legacy engines operating better on chopped.

 

So I wonder why the MTH Z is smooth and not chopped.

 

From a guy that runs purely L a chopped wave would be nice.

I often wondered why MTH didn't have an over ride or something so the transformer remembers what voltage the handles were set to when powering up again.  Some people like me (with PW ZWs) hide their transformer(s) under the benchwork along with the DCS components.

So, to do a quick summary so far:

 

*And how about a Switch, DCS mode and Conventional mode. Set it to DCS and you do not have to reset the throttles to off every time you power it up.

 

*A direct power feed for the TIU would be a nice add, separate breakers on each throttle should be standard as well.

 

 *Two main circuit breakers, one for each handle.

 

*a 500 watt output with four track handles would be awesome, especially with added DCS capability

 

*Also, put the breakers on the front business end, not in a hard to reach spot on the rear

 

*About the only thing to add to the Z4000 would be a dedicated TIU power port

 

*a variable-voltage accessory tap for accessories that run better if you fine-tune the voltage.

It's simply the BEST on the market! Why tamper with a proven performer.  Dave G.

I know you were smiling, when you typed this and you're just the latest to express your apprval of the transformer, but...

 

Because that's how products get left in the dust. the competition and even MTH's own products (PS2 and PS3) have developed beyond the original (conventional and PS1) scope of this unit. MTH has added functionality, but should be developing this flagship transformer.

I'm a few years from "needing" one. I hope the one I buy incorporates some of these ideas and some things that haven't been imagined yet. Since they last forever, I'm sure there are enough out there now, where PS1 folks will be able to buy used models, if a newer model drops some of the older features.

Marty R makes a good point.  The Z4000 has been the best in the market, but the new Lionel ZW-L is supposed to be fantastic.  MTH probably needs to think about leapfrogging it, updating it to, say, a Z5000 (more power never hurt anything) and features (a conventional or DCS switch, etc.) or something. 

 

I have a ZW-L on order and hjopefully coming in tomorrow or Tuesday.  I am going to be very interested to compare the two side by side.

Lee - I look forward to your comparison!

Has the Z4000 ever been upgraded?  If so, when was the upgrade made?

Gentlemen,

   No real need for an upgrade in the Z4K at this time, maybe a power boost to 600,  what I want is an upgraded DCS hand held remote, with one step switch control, nicer thumb wheel,

and a bigger lighted control screen.

PCRR/Dave

No thanks.  Works for me just fine the way it is.

 

" I expect it will continue to serve well for the remainder of my lifetime"

 

I agree, Allen.  I run  a Z4000 alongside two 62-year old ZWs.  My 71-year old Type R is relegated to the workbench.

 

I do hate to see the Z4k receiver becoming hard to get.  On the rare instances when I fire up my ancient locos, it's invaluable.  Also valuable in resetting circuit breakers from far side of the layout.