James J. Hills Great Northern Railroad and Glacier National Park.

Wow, fantastic pictures, Mike you'r right, just added to my bucket list.

Jack

Third Rail is now offering a Great Northern Mikado, identified as the largest Mikado

built..too bad it doesn't fit my "theme".  The problem here is that with several of

the parks, excepting the Grand Canyon, which you can see from the rim  from many

locations, Yosemite, which has major sights reached by car, and Yellowstone, with plenty of bleachers from which to watch Old Faithful, as well as roads to the major

fumaroles, hot springs, and geysers,  you have to get off road and into the back country to really SEE them, as was done by the poster.  That is a time and money factor.  And for that reason, even if I've been there, I haven't really SEEN it.

I take one of Amtraks finest to get there. next month will be my third trip in three years.

clem

 

can anyone confirm whether the O8 class, or for that matter any GN Mikes were ever painted in Glacier Park livery?  pretty sure they were basic black.

Great Northern Mikes, including the O-7 and O-8 classes, were absolutely painted in the Glacier Park paint scheme with light olive green boiler jackets.

If you are going to Glacier you should not miss the Izaak Walton Inn.  You can eat off of (and buy) reproduction Empire Builder China and the view of the track from Room 441 is fantastic. 

http://www.izaakwaltoninn.com/luxury-railcars

Better hurry, Jack. Mike's right. Current estimates are that due to global warming, in only about 6 years, all the glaciers in Glacier National Park will be gone (there used to be 150 glaciers in the Park). And they won't be back. As some commentators have said, we'll just have to call it Park Park. Really a shame. I guess I was fortunate to have visited the Park 35 years ago, when it still had glaciers.

Really enjoyed the pictures, Mike. Yours too, Andrew. Those are great. I need to make that Grinnell hike sometime (while I still can ).

Current estimates are that due to global warming, in only about 6 years, all the glaciers in Glacier National Park will be gone (there used to be 150 glaciers in the Park). And they won't be back.

Sure they will.  But perhaps not in our lifetime.

Really a shame.

That all depends on your perspective.  We are in a 10,000+ year warming trend.  Before that what is now Seattle was under thousands of feet of ice.  When the GN was first built we were coming out of a cold period that created decades of glacial growth within the much longer duration warming trend and era of glacial retreat. 

I don't think that Jim Hill would have ever built the GN to Puget Sound if it were still under glaciers.  And I'm glad they have retreated from my front yard.  I don't think that climate change is a shame at all.  Some of the changes have been very beneficial.  We will continue to adapt to a changing environment and continue to change the ways we impact the environment.

Just don't plan a trip to Glacier national park too early in the year.  A big snow year can still severely limit early season park access even if there is less snow in August and September then there was most years 100 or 120 years ago. 

Sorry, that point of view is dismissed by 99% of scientists. The disappearance of glaciers around the world is clearly not a result of some natural warming period (which periods, in any case, were very gradual - the warming occurring now is happening with unprecedented speed). Here, for example, is some information from our National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA):

"The Earth's position and orientation relative to the sun (our orbit) also varies slightly, thereby bringing us closer and further away from the sun in predictable cycles (called Milankovitch cycles). Variations in these cycles are believed to be the cause of Earth's ice-ages (glacials). While Milankovitch cycles have tremendous value as a theory to explain ice-ages and long-term changes in the climate, they are unlikely to have very much impact on the decade-century timescale. Over several centuries, it may be possible to observe the effect of these orbital parameters, however for the prediction of climate change in the 21^st century, these changes will be far less important than radiative forcing from greenhouse gases."

It was interesting how the railroads "divided up" the national parks for their promotional advertising, depending upon their routes. They spend millions of dollars over a number of decades advertising the national parks to promote their passenger trains, drawing people from the eastern U.S. to the Great West to see the sights.

The Great Northern promoted Glacier, the Northern Pacific Yellowstone, the UP promoted Zion, Bryce Canyon and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, and the Santa Fe promoted the Grand Canyon generally, with direct service to the South Rim. The railroads even built lodges (like the Canadian Pacific in Canada). For example, the lodge on the Grand Canyon's South Rim was built by the Santa Fe, the one on the North Rim was built by the UP.

Yes, but whether Amtrak will continue operations so as to be able to take passengers to visit Glacier is more problematic.  

I don't think Amtrak would give a rats patoot. The Amtrak Empire Builder has to take that rout anyway, in order to get to and from Seattle.

Sorry, that point of view is dismissed by 99% of scientists.

Are you saying that 99% of scientists believe that the disappearance of 99% of the ice in Washington, Idaho and Montana in the last 10,000 years is attributable to anthropogenic warming? Really?

The disappearance of glaciers around the world is clearly not a result of some natural warming period (which periods, in any case, were very gradual - the warming occurring now is happening with unprecedented speed).

breezinup

You really should do some more traveling.  By all means see Glacier.  And continue west.  Follow the path of the Lake Missoula floods and visit Dry Falls andthe Grand Coulee.  Visit Mt. St. Helens National Monument and Mt. Rainier and the North Cascades National Parks.  You can follow some more railroads (the NP at Eddy, Montana and the Milwaukee to Elbe, Washington) and see some places where truly rapid changes have produced dramatic impacts on the landscape.  And you can see far more glaciers than have ever existed in Montana in modern times.

Anyone planning a trip to Glacier NP really should be cautious about planning an early season trip.  Accessibility can be dramatically different from year to year based on winter snowfall and spring melting conditions.  Two years ago were were still adding to the snow pack in the northwest until about the start of May and the melting was very slow leaving many popular trails under snow until well into July.

Thanks for all the positive response.  Glacier is such a wonderful place that needs explored.  I've made Grinnell Glacier twice.  The Going-to-the-Sun Road affords the general public a great adventure into the Rocky Mountains.  Here is one of my favorite pictures on our hike to Grinnell Glacier.  There is a snow melt water fall, the trail both times I was there was just open, late July.
My sweetheart with her beautiful smile.







My crew, Sweetheart, oldest daughter and son-in-law.  Lunch at Grinnell Glacier, we were on the trail early that day.  It would be the rest of the day before we were back to our tent site at Many Glaciers Camp Ground. Trails are restricted due to Bear activity.  Exercise caution and do bear training as part of your park experience.

The average stay at a National Park like Glacier is somewhere near 2 hrs. Please plan your trip to enjoy the park and at Glacier there is railroad as has been mentioned.  I also found the Red Buses to be fascinating.

These guys could pose for the Great Northern Logo.

This guy passed by during Lunch at Dawson Pass. South Glacier accessed from Two Medicine Camp Ground, via No Name lake over night back pack. 

Bear.  Swiftcurrent Pass trail, that I believe accesses Granite Park Chalet. A mountain top Chalet, trail access only, by permit over night, that is also accessed from the trail near the Logan Pass visitors center.   There are pictures of Granite Park Chalet in the original Photo-stream, though buried in snow.  A visit to Granite Park Chalet is on my bucket list.       

Ted, you really should do some looking at Balog's very famous photo documentation series. If you've been following the worldwide rapid disappearance of glaciers, and effects of what's happening to the planet generally, you should be familiar with it:

In an effort to provide concrete visual proof of climate change and its devastating effects, photographer James Balog embarked on a years-long project that spanned the northern reaches of the globe. He set up cameras from Greenland to Alaska in order to capture horrifying—yet undeniably beautiful—time-lapse photos that reveal the unprecedented rate at which glaciers are receding. The award-winning Chasing Ice, which chronicles Balog’s monumental endeavor with his Extreme Ice Survey, showcases breathtaking photographs from Balog’s Ice: Portraits of Vanishing Glaciers, published by Rizzoli.

More great pictures, Mike. Those White Model 706 opentop buses built in the late '30s are great - love that the Park Service keeps those in operation. My wife and I rode those when we were at Glacier. I have a model of it on my layout. For those interested, see opentopbus.com for information. (I think I got mine from Diecast Direct, but don't remember for sure.)

Like this one on my layout. Purchased at the Gift shop Logan Pass visitors center. 

And since you are already on route 2, keep going west to Stevens Pass and see the Great Northern tunnels.  The upper tunnel belongs to the government now. There was quite an effort to get trails into the tunnel and snow sheds. But with collapses of both in recent years, it appears as if the trail effort has diminished.  But there is still lots to see.  Both ends of the upper tunnel are accessible and you can walk in the east end some distance. The two track curved tunnel at Windy Point is all accessible. Also the mile long two track concrete snow shed at the site of the Wellington avalanche.  Worst in the US.  Took out two trains and killed around 100. There is still lots of evidence of the trolley wire for the three phase electrification. There is still debris from the passenger trains down the side if you want to climb down.  The horse shoe tunnel and footings for the trestles at both ends are still there.  The dam in Tumwater canyon is still there, but the power house is gone.   The penstock route is a trail with some evidence of the pen stock.  Roads use much of the route of the eight switches that predates the upper tunnel. And of corse the lower tunnel is still there and in use by BN. Both ends are accessible by car. The east end is we're the ventilation door is.  Skykomish is still there, a nice little town, a nice place to stay if trains all day and night do not bother you. The frequency converter building is gone, removed c. 1990.  Beautiful country.  Research the Iron Horse Trail before you go and check in at a ranger station when you get there to find out the real status of roads and trails.

 2nd trip to Glacier, we rode a bus to Waterton, (Canadian Glacier Park).  Passports required.  Another great adventure.    

Virtually every steam locomotive on the GN had green painted boiler jacketing. The GN Mechanical Dept. issued a letter about September 1951 (if I remember correctly), stating that all locomotive jacketing was to be painted black. Thus, if you are modeling the WWII and later years, go with green, and early to mid 1950s, go with black.

up till now my only O8 reference was a PFM import in black, but seeing the O8's did not get scrapped until the early 1960's according to steamlocomotive.com, i suppose there was still about a decade that it could have been repainted to black livery.

from this series on the GN...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nZPy1QZ-Y

it's easy to see why b/w photos reveal little about the color.  even when a green boiler is evident, it's often so soot covered as to nearly mask its true identity.

Glacier National Park is my favorite! Be sure to stop by Whitefish, MT, west of the park. It is an old GN division point, with, as of my last visit in 1994, a portion of the roundhouse still extant, the Swiss-chalet style depot and a beautiful NW3 diesel road switcher in GN colors on display. Still loaded with railroady atmosphere!

Overlandflyer, the link to Volume 3 of Tony DeRosa's 8mm movies (below) is the one you should have pointed to. The middle chapter titled "Medium Locomotives" has a lot of scenes of O-8's operating in the late forties and early fifties. Most of them have the green boiler jackets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUe12MsfsmM

Also, I agree with Mark S that Whitefish is a must-see. The NW3 is still there, as is the recently restored GN "Bruck" (combination bus-truck used for Whitefish to Kalispell service).  Very nice museum inside the station also...  Finally, if you tire of the "rustic" lodging offered in the park, you can get a full-service hotel including cable TV and wireless internet in Whitefish...

When those White buses were delivered, they had the mid 1930's Pierce-Arrow sheet

metal on the front, and the Pierce-Arrow V-12 engines.  The grille and hood styling is retained but the buses then and now did not use the Pierce-Arrow's signature twin headlights in the fenders.

Wikipedia clip on the Red jammer. White 706 buses.  The one I saw at Yellowstone was a different color.   33 are or were in operation at Glacier, article notes 7 at Yellowstone. 

Click on the underlined phrase to link. 

1/48 scale jammer models website.  I did not check this site. 

Thanks again to all who participated in this thread.  You own the National Parks, take the time to experience them.  My children have all agreed that the Grandkids (6 now) will all experience Glacier National Park.  

Best wishes.

Mike CT      

Keep in mind the railroads were behind the creation of those national parks, so as to create a destination for the railroad to haul people to visit!!

BTW with all it has to offer, I'm sure Glacier Natl Park will continue to be visited long after the glaciers are gone.

Yup, the railroads played a very important part. They didn't really create the national park system, more like subsequent to the beginning of the system the railroads were instrumental in lobbying Congress for the continued designation of national parks, and built some of the lodges. (The first park, Yosemite, was set aside by Congress six years before the completion of the transcontinental railroad, and Yellowstone just a couple years after, before the railroads came on the scene.)

Other organizations lobbied, too, but the railroads had big money in those days, and could be very "persuasive." The government was very supportive of the railroads at that time....large land giveaways to the RRs were the norm, as well. The railroads became the largest landowners in the western U.S., other than the federal government. Here's some interesting information from the Park Service:

"The national park concept is generally credited to the artist George Catlin. On a trip to the Dakotas in 1832, he worried about the impact of America's westward expansion on Indian civilization, wildlife, and wilderness. They might be preserved, he wrote, "by some great protecting policy of government...in a magnificent park.... A nation's park, containing man and beast, in all the wild and freshness of their nature's beauty!"

Catlin's vision was partly realized in 1864, when Congress donated Yosemite Valley to California for preservation as a state park. Eight years later, in 1872, Congress reserved the spectacular Yellowstone country in the Wyoming and Montana territories "as a public park or pleasuring-ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people." With no state government there yet to receive and manage it, Yellowstone remained in the custody of the U.S. Department of the Interior as a national park-the world's first area so designated."

"Congress followed the Yellowstone precedent with other national parks in the 1890s and early 1900s, including Sequoia, Yosemite (to which California returned Yosemite Valley), Mount Rainier, Crater Lake, and Glacier. The idealistic impulse to preserve nature was often joined by the pragmatic desire to promote tourism: western railroads lobbied for many of the early parks and built grand rustic hotels in them to boost their passenger business."

The ones at Yellowstone were yellow, I believe (makes sense!).

Staying at park lodges is highly recommended. There are no TVs, among other features. Wonderful. When we took our kids when they were younger, it was often an adjustment for a day or two, but then their attention turned to other things, and evening entertainment was playing cards or board games, etc., which activities were much more fulfilling.

Thank you for starting and contributing to this thread!  I really enjoyed this!  

Way back in the mid 1990s, I, along with Robert C. Del Grosso, wrote a book entitled: "Montana's Marias Pass, Early GN Mileposts and BNSF Guide."

It was a book that contained stories, both serious and funny, history, of towns and places along the line from Shelby to Whitefish, Montana.

Of course there were lots of pictures and drawings in the book, but not as many as I would have like to have seen--because of the expense.  However, years passed, the book was long out-of-print, you can find it on-line for about $60 to $90 and people still were inquiring. 

I asked and Robert C. Del Grosso was gracious enough to give me all rights and authorized me to redo this book in an electronic version!  A CD.  You can get the CD for $9.99 I believe...still...?

The CD contains extra photos, updates and 15 original railroad blueprints which I personally owned and in 2010 donated them to be displayed on the walls of the famous Izaak Walton Inn.

Not just the "steam railroads" came up with the idea of parks so people could ride the passenger trains.

The Houston Electric help build Highland Park in the near Northside area of Houston in the early 1900's so people could ride trolley/light rail to the park.  Houston Electric was the rail provider.....

Actually, the first public park run for and by a national government in modern times was NOT in the USA, but in a location near Paris, FRANCE.  This park beat Yellowstone by, at max, a few years.

Ya, many electric interurban / streetcar lines built amusement parks etc. 'out in the country' as a destination for people to go on the weekend (when they weren't using the streetcar to go to work).

p.s. I believe Louis Hill was more involved in Glacier Park and GN's operations there than James J. was.

Another site that was a destination to which streetcar/interurban lines were built were

cemeteries, for Sunday riders to go out and visit graves.  Some of these included

picnic facilities.  One structure I am familiar with in a cemetery bordering the road now, but off of it in the right place for an interurban line, looks very much like a small station.

Here's my two cents.  I couple of vaguely train related photos & some scenics.

It should absolutely be on everyone's list.  Along with Yellowstone and Yosemite.

To quote the Great Northern "See America First"

Some fantastic photos.

NOW YA GOT ME LOOKING THROUGH OLD PHOTOS!!!!