K-line Berkshire

Does someone have a early K-line Berk and could try to run it conventional and see if it runs.

Thanks

There is a reset that is supposed to fix this, it happens to locomotives with K-Line Cruise.  I've attached some K-Line Cruise programming tips that I've collected over the years, maybe one of these will help.

K-Line TMCC Cruise Reprogramming Tips.pdf

Thanks John, It sounds like the last paragraph is my problem. I will try it tomorrow.

Let us know if you sort it out.  I've found that some K-Line cruise works great, other models I could never sort out the issues.  There were a number of versions of the K-Line cruise boards, the Rev. 4 were generally pretty good.

John, the 'special handshake' reprogram worked, thank you. I was trying to reprogram it like a Lionel engine, without the '99' and #7. It will now run in conventional. Too bad K-line did not include this pertinent information in their instruction booklet. Once you re-program the engine with a different ID number, the ability to run conventional is lost, unless you know the secret  code!

However there is a odd quirk. The cruise control switch must be in the on position when running in conventional, or it will run very fast. The opposite in command. The cruise control switch must be off when running TMCC, or it will run full speed as soon as the dial is turned.

Well, at least it runs.  Truthfully, with the what you're seeing, the cruise may not be working right.  If it's not seeing anything from the tach, it'll take off like a rocket, just like the TAS cruise or the early Lionel Odyssey with a broken magnet ring.

The engine has speed control in conventional, as long as the odyssey switch is on. If I try to run the engine with TMCC with the speed control still on, it will take off full speed once the throttle is cracked open, and WILL NOT STOP WITH THE THROTTLE, to stop it you need to push the reverse button., but if the switch is in off mode, it runs fine with speed control.

Any chance the switch polarity is reversed?  Not the first time that's happened!

John, Where did that last paragraph come from.  I have an Allegheny with no conventional, and I have never seen that in any instructions.  I had asked several years ago and this search never revealed a solution.  Additionally, why would that code work based on #7 (supposedly wireless tether) and #8 (#8 IS NOT Lionel's code for Steam Engine with Smoke)  from the Lionel R2LC Code, unless 99 triggers it. Never heard anyone from Lionel comment about this.  Makes you wonder if K-Line did have separate code in their R2LC.  G

George, I don't recall what post that was in, but it was stated here.  When I compiled this list, I was taking all the "hints" about configuring K-Line cruise and putting them in one document.

I always thought that K-Line used the standard R2LC, but they certainly could have had unique code.  From what I have heard, the firmware control was less than complete in those years at Lionel.

I hope Chuck can chime back in, I wonder if his head light is direction with the Berk now.  I would have thought 74.  I tried all the combination of codes etc and have the same assembled instructions from all those years.  But never used 99.  Even K-line own instructions do not address that code.  Plus they tell you to use #4.  Which works fine in Command.  Weird.  G

Yes the locomotive headlight is directional. I tried a second Berk, and it preforms the same way. No running until the 99 code is entered. You only need to do this if you want the engine to run conventional. The standard reprogramming works fine for TMCC.

The odd thing is, if you only had a conventional layout, you'd be out of luck!

I think as new from the factory it comes with the 99 already programmed. When you enter a new TMCC ID number is when it is reprogrammed it loses the 99 code, and only noticeable when you try to run conventional again.  I'm surprised that this issue hasn't been too noticed before, as I knew nothing about the issue until John posted his notes.

When the 2nd run of K-line berks came out, there was a problem with the cruise. SUPERWARP1 had a fix for that. Best I recall it had to do with the spacing of the reader & the fix was a shim. Maybe GARY can help here.

Doug

Chuck Sartor posted:

I think as new from the factory it comes with the 99 already programmed. When you enter a new TMCC ID number is when it is reprogrammed it loses the 99 code, and only noticeable when you try to run conventional again.  I'm surprised that this issue hasn't been too noticed before, as I knew nothing about the issue until John posted his notes.

Chuck it has come up many times, do a search.  This is the first time I have seen a solution that works.  I bet if you set 74 the HL will remain on.  G

The headlight is on in forward, off in reverse.

It's thinking it's a diesel according the headlight operation.  I remember other conversations about this and the failures described.  I haven't personally had one that wouldn't run in conventional, so I haven't had the chance to try to "fix" one.  Here's hoping that I never have to experience that!

Chuck, can you check the motor driver to see what version you have? I think the Berks were the last engine K-Line made that had cruise. I heard they made a version 5. All of mine, including two factory installed (F7, 4-6-6T) and one upgrade kit are all version 4 and do not have this issue.

Pete

I never saw a Version 5 board, I think I still have an earlier board in my parts... A version 3 and one that's unlabeled, but it appears to be the same vintage as the version 3.

The 2 berks I have are version 4. I don't think I have ever seen a version 5 driver board either.

I upgrade an Allegheny with Ver 4 kit and it has this problem.  Also worked on a factory cruise Allegheny with same problem.  Never found solution.

Frankly I am going to Try 99 and just 4.  Clearly the K-Line cruise board is also looking for the serial data programing to set how it operates.

I have several K-Line locomotives that I've replaced the K-Line cruise with the CC-M, much more predictable as to how it operates.

Well, this did not work for my Alleghany.  It would always move in conventional but at a snails pace and never speed up to normal.  Even after doing the 99, it responds the same way.  Just crawls around at a few MPH at 18V.   G

Sounds like the speed control is locked. Did you also do the 74?

Yes.  Tried the old Lionel Cruise Unlock procedure that did not work either.  It is stuck in at about 3 SMPH in conventional.  G

But it runs OK in TMCC ?

GGG I had one that did the same thing. I changed the R2LC board and it worked fine. I put the R2LC board in a different engine and that engine worked fine. Go figure. 

Yes, Great in TMCC and control over cruise speed and such.  Just no real motion in conventional. Crawls around at very low speed even at 18VAC. 

I really do not understand this 99 code, unless that is for the cruise board to see.  It is like setting and ID of 99, but then you immediately override it with the ID of the engine.  So the 99 should be gone, and the new number in place.   The 74 code was for certain Lionel IR tether steam.  78, would be similar accept a diesel lighting code set by the 8.   I am glad it worked for you, but....  not the Allegheny.  G

Just for the heck of it, did you try running conventional with the cruise switch off?

I don't understand the 99 either, I just read it here years ago and someone claimed it solved their problem.  I think if you look at my collection of K-Line Cruise Hints, you'll see that not all of them are something I've actually tried.

Will this reset process work for all K-Line engines with Command?  I have the K3470-0403CC B&A 2-6-6 tank engine with Command,  2 of the K-Line FM Trainmasters and 2 sets of K-Line E8's all with Command. 

The 99 prefix worked in my case fixing the problem.

Allegheny48 posted:

Will this reset process work for all K-Line engines with Command?  I have the K3470-0403CC B&A 2-6-6 tank engine with Command,  2 of the K-Line FM Trainmasters and 2 sets of K-Line E8's all with Command. 

Are any of them having a problem? Also the CC suffix doesn't always mean it has cruise. Some of the FMs had cruise but am not aware of any E8s that had it from the factory.

Pete

The CC at the end of the K-Line number was Command Control, meaning it had TMCC from the factory, nothing more, nothings less.  I do not believe there was anything added to the part number to show it had cruise.