K-Line BigBoy TMCC

Setting the cab2 to TMCC?

cjack posted:

Setting the cab2 to TMCC?

As far as I know yes.

How about the K-Line model number?  If this is one with K-Line cruise, it probably had a failed cruise module.

Label with model no 

That is weird, so you do have some functional control with TMCC, but not all.  Not sure why going thru MTH system allows reverse and Legacy does not.

I guess I would open it up and inspect what you have.  I have seen K-Line engines either stripped of parts, or Cruise added.  You could have a combination of issues.  Part R2LC and Motor board, and Part railsounds.   You can take the boards out and reseat.  With proper pick tool, remove chips from RS board and reseat.  That may resolve your Bell/Whistle issue.  As far as Motor drive, try a new R2LC.  Make sure antenna not grounded.  After that need to look at the Motor drive board.  If cruise, it could be a failure, or just missing serial data.  If DCDR, it may think it is in conventional and goes full tilt.  But that does not explain how you have other TMCC control.  This one sound like it may need a more experience tech with the necessary parts to start swapping.   G

I think I'd start by examining the wiring and then testing the boards.  Cruise is not mentioned, but as George says, that's not a concrete indication of what you have.  However, I don't think any of the K-Line stuff from 2002 came with cruise control, that came several years later as I recall.

K3790-4015S Union Pacific Big Boy #4015 w/Lionel RailSounds, TMCC, Smoke & Electrocoupler

Here it is naked. Cruise is not mentioned in the manual. I have removed and reseated all boards but no luck. I removed the antenna connection to the body, same result. I do not have many TMCC locos or experience. And as I live Europe I can't send it for repair. I think I have an R2LC board from an Atlas Diesel. I also have a LIONEL TMCC RS-11 that I haven't used much as it was something off with TMCC on that one too. and I have a Lionel Mikado that is a K-line design(With cruise). This can't run on my current 031 layout but worked well on a previous layout until 2012. Even though TMCC is unknown to me, I have electronics skills and can handle a soldering iron.

On the rearmost board on the locomotive there is a jumper "J5" what is this for ?

OK, it's a bog standard TMCC package, it uses all Lionel parts.  There is no cruise as I see the standard DCDR motor driver.

If you're reseated all the boards and made SURE there are no loose or broken wires, the next step I'd go for is replacing the R2LC.  I'm assuming you did reprogram the locomotive, right?  If not, do that first.

STEP 1: Move switch on locomotive from run to program.
STEP 2: Turn on Command Base.
STEP 3: Place locomotive on track, then turn on power to track.
STEP 4: Press “ENG” then input locomotive ID#. Press “SET”.
STEP 5: Press ”ENG” then input locomotive ID# again.
STEP 6: Press “AUX 1”, then input the reprogramming code number that
corresponds to your locomotive, "4" for this locomotive.
STEP 7: Turn off power to track, wait ten seconds.
STEP 8: Remove locomotive from track, move switch from program to run.
STEP 9: Place locomotive back on track. Turn power on to track.
STEP 10: Press “ENG” and ID#, then operate as normal.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

OK, it's a bog standard TMCC package, it uses all Lionel parts.  There is no cruise as I see the standard DCDR motor driver.

If you're reseated all the boards and made SURE there are no loose or broken wires, the next step I'd go for is replacing the R2LC.  I'm assuming you did reprogram the locomotive, right?  If not, do that first.

STEP 1: Move switch on locomotive from run to program.
STEP 2: Turn on Command Base.
STEP 3: Place locomotive on track, then turn on power to track.
STEP 4: Press “ENG” then input locomotive ID#. Press “SET”.
STEP 5: Press ”ENG” then input locomotive ID# again.
STEP 6: Press “AUX 1”, then input the reprogramming code number that
corresponds to your locomotive, "4" for this locomotive.
STEP 7: Turn off power to track, wait ten seconds.
STEP 8: Remove locomotive from track, move switch from program to run.
STEP 9: Place locomotive back on track. Turn power on to track.
STEP 10: Press “ENG” and ID#, then operate as normal.

I have tried that several times I did find a R2LC and replaced it. Same result. 

Well, the only two parts that typically would cause a runaway are the R2LC or the DCDR in this locomotive.  The tender components are strictly the sound, they wouldn't cause what you see.  This is the DCDR, it's the only other component I can imagine that could be an issue with those symptoms. 

Obviously, I'd be checking continuity for all the wiring between various components at this stage, but if that fails, you'll likely have to try replacing the DCDR.  The sad part is, if you lived in the US, I have a drawer full of those.

Just throwing this out there, as I think I read that the current firmware for Legacy doesn't have issues... What is mains power over there and could that have an effect on the TMCC working correctly?  I've read that folks on 50Hz had issues with TMCC equipment.  

Hmm...  Excellent point about 50hz, I didn't even think of that.  Lots of people in Europe do run TMCC, I wonder if others have similar issues?  In thinking about the operation of the DCDR, I can't see why it would be a factor, but who knows.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hmm...  Excellent point about 50hz, I didn't even think of that.  Lots of people in Europe do run TMCC, I wonder if others have similar issues?  In thinking about the operation of the DCDR, I can't see why it would be a factor, but who knows.

I'm honestly unsure, but I recall folks having trouble and having to use a 60Hz inverter to get original TMCC to work properly.  I don't remember whaat problems 50Hz actually caused, but seem to remember having read that one of the firmware updates for Legacy fixed the problem for Legacy stuff... Really don't know what I'm talking about on this, but maybe someone in the know could enlighten us about what problems 50Hz cause and if this might be one of them.  

I think we need some of the European TMCC users to step in here.

As I remember you can have sound problems whereby you can’t control them and they have a mind of their own and the more interesting one is where they will just take off sporadically without any reason.

I believe someone said things may be slightly better with an R4LC, but no guarantee on this.

I do have a 60hz inverter stacked away somewhere. It needs a beefy 12 V DC supply. But I have that. 

I know that there was an issue with early Legacy Smoke Boards and 50 Hz. I remember Mike Reagan helping me with an updated version for a GP-9.

If 50 Hz is the issue, I don't want to run a 60Hz inverter continuously. I think that most ERR boards work with 50 Hz. A Cruise commander "M" and a Railsounds Commander? Otherwise I might go for a Deltang solution. Don't know about the sound tough.

Before making a major decision about a different control system, you could try operating it on 60Hz and see if that is the problem. If it is, you can figure out what else to do. You do not have to "run a 60Hz inverter continuously," only long enough to determine if that is the problem or not.  If 50Hz is not the problem you can look elsewhere.

Since no one here (so far) can tell you definitively what the problem is, you will have to do some more investigation. It's better to make some tests that point you in the right direction and eliminate phantoms than it is to just speculate and make knee jerk decisions based on someone else's guesses and speculation.

RoyBoy posted:

Before making a major decision about a different control system, you could try operating it on 60Hz and see if that is the problem. If it is, you can figure out what else to do. You do not have to "run a 60Hz inverter continuously," only long enough to determine if that is the problem or not.  If 50Hz is not the problem you can look elsewhere.

Since no one here (so far) can tell you definitively what the problem is, you will have to do some more investigation. It's better to make some tests that point you in the right direction and eliminate phantoms than it is to just speculate and make knee jerk decisions based on someone else's guesses and speculation.

Well, yes.  I figured it would be obvious that testing, or someone that has dealt with it before chiming in would be the best bet.  As I said I'm just throwing out an idea of something to test. The OP mentioned having access to an inverter so it is doable to check things.  Also worth noting, you probably don't actually need a huge power supply for a test.  Between the engine and TMCC base plus some for loss you're only going to draw maybe 100 wats from the inverter likely half that.  So hooking it to a car battery is overkill.  You could probably get by with 8 AA (actually 9 is probably better) batteries for a short test, or the 12V rail on a computer power supply.  

I'd hoped someone that has actually delt with 50Hz would chime in to let us know if we're even on the right track at all.  It's just as likely, if not more so that a board is bad.  

As a side, I am assuming that reseting the engine as described above would reset any momentum or stall settings, is that correct?  Additionally there could be a motor/mechanical issue that is binding up the drive train causing it to need full throttle to overcome the binding, though that wouldn't affect other functions if the engine is stopped.  

For the DCDR to be faulty in go full tilt, more then likely a shorted triac.  But since he says he can occasionally get it to go in reverse with MTH system, that does not make sense.  This may very well be the 50hz also causing lack of good communication to the RS board.  By the way the RS board is the K-Line version, or OEM version Lionel sold, so the chip is soldered on.  I would unseat all boards and reseat as a simple solution.  Then try it on conventional with 60hz ac source.  If all functions work, you found your problem.  Then again, if you have other TMCC engines working on your layout, all except this one, I doubt it is the 50hz.

At that point swap in a different R2LC.   This also looks like it is the older Mother Board with Jumpers for Conventional or TMCC configuration.  Might be a jumper in the wrong spot.  The Tender should work all by itself in conventional.  For TMCC function it would need to be connected to engine to get Serial data.

When power applied does tender stay quiet unit you press startup; or does it start making idle sounds as soon as power is applied?  G

I will try with 60hz before doing anything else. But I have to find my 110V to 18 V transformer first. I have the inverter and power supply.  I currently do run any other TMCC locos.  I remember that when I started out i 0-gauge in 2008 I read alot about TMCC not working with 50 hz. Thats way I got the inverter. Then I ended up running MTH, Legacy and LionChief so the TMCC issue and inverter was forgotten.