K-Line Cruise Replacement in Dual Power A-B-A Set

@Norton posted:

Moral here is yank those capacitors if you haven't already

Most certainly, the caps drive the back-EMF nuts.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

John,  Yes... They have sound and I believe it's RS-4, at least that's what I have in my notes.  RS-5 would be nice (and probably the speakers upgraded as well).  I run them with Legacy and the CAB2 remote.  Now that I have dependable switches (thank you Tortoise) I think it's time enroll in electronics school.

I think the first step would be to shoot some pictures of the existing electronics so we can see what you really have.

OK, I actually took it a step further given the low current draw. Now running with just a Cruise M. The bridge was removed from the M and is mounted to the frame. Total motor drive current is between 1 and 1.2 amps. I can afford to blow up this board in the interest of science. Don’t try this at home. Further testing will have to wait until I can get on the club layout and start pulling some serious loads.

Pete

A number of Legacy locomotives have a tethered bridge for the motor driver board, apparently this is the reason.

They run great... and, lash-up fine for MU ...and, sound like crap.

K-LINE K2780-4935 Black Jack GG1 (shown).  There probably isn't a lot that can be done... but, here are the guts...

This is the same era as Lionel's Celebration Series (Open Frame motors) GG1s... except with Can Motors ...and except for the trucks, a whole lot more body detail.

Those are RS 385 PH's

Lionel Board...

You could put cruise (Cruise M) in there. They are Railsounds 4 but many K-Line speakers are very efficient. I find the sound OK. Maybe you have a bad speaker.

Pete

You could also pretty easily graft the ERR RS Commander for GG1/EP5 in there for a bit high quality sound.

Thanks Pete!

I think I have one Cruise M... if yes, I'll give it a go.  If I can handle that I'll get two more for the others.  All the speakers sound the same in the 5 quasi modern conventional size GG1s I have.  Train Electronics Kindergarten starts now!

Whoops!!!  John got in between posts!  Does the ERR RS Commander for GG1/EP5 negate the Cruise M or is it a different board?  This is exactly where my knowledge base is lacking... Notebook started.

OK... just went to and bookmarked...

http://www.3rdrail.com/err-3rdrail/

Thank You!  John and Pete!

Just a followup on what was posted earlier. I pretty much finished my K-Line E8 ABAs other than a few details. Just wanted to demonstrate how it performs with 6 motors being driven by a single ERR Cruise M. I didn't think it would work this well but others have reported sucess doing it this way. I did remove the bridge rectifier from the Cruise M so I could mount it to a proper heat sink. In this case the engine frame. What surprised me is how little current is drawn by the 6 motors when running together. I think a lot of that is due to them operating as one unit instead of a typical lash up with multiple engines being slightly out of sync with each other. No fancy video editing software here so I had to make two videos. First is the engines leaving from idle.

This shows current draw. Before the horn is just the quiescent current of the 3 roof fan motors, headlight, and electronics. Engine is addressed at the horn. Then the increase in current as the engines start moving follow by return to stop. Basically driving the 6 motors adds 1 amp total to the load.

Just be aware this is not the recommended use of these boards. Each motor has a stall current of around 2.5 amps. Six total would be 15 amps and the Cruise M is rated for 6 amps max. I have a 5 amp fast blow fuse in the circuit just in case but will have to wait until I can run the engine on the club layout with a real load.

Pete

Pete, I'd consider something like a 2A PTC in series with the motors.  This will trip quickly at 5-6 amps, but give you plenty of reserve for any normal running.  It'll also not ever have to be replaced.

I am just on step one John. I will make it more permanent when I get an idea of max current draw under load. I have fuses but not PTCs.

Pete

I have an A-B-A here with a toasted K-Line Cruise.  Given this revelation about the cruise modules and the rectifiers, I'm going to rewire it the same way for all the motors.  Not having a second cruise module will be a big bonus.  I always wondered why sometimes the rectifiers were on heatsinks, and other times the FET's were, now I know.

I posted a new thread on converting the ERR Cruise Commander to a tethered bridge, the same technique can be applied to the ERR Cruise Commander M as well.

How To: ERR Cruise Commander With Tethered Bridge for 4-Motor Operation

Pete,

In the video as you start from idle, there are a few jerky accelerations, is that just how the throttle was advanced or did the power kick in with a big jump?

Ron

@Ron_S posted:

Pete,

In the video as you start from idle, there are a few jerky accelerations, is that just how the throttle was advanced or did the power kick in with a big jump?

Ron

I was using my Cab1 not paying much attention to speed steps. Its much smoother using a Cab2 in R100 mode plus this is my test track and not very smooth. I hope to pull some cars with it on the club layout in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.

Pete