Lamenting PS 1 loss of value

Welcome to the forum!  You are certainly going to get less from them when selling to a train buyer/retailer who has to make something when he re-sells them.  Try posting them on this Buy/Sell Board.  Items that are fairly priced will sell and there are no fees.  You can also try the auction site.  You get a large audience, but their fees are ridiculous these days.  Unfortunately, PS1 items have very little re-sale value regardless of condition.

Jeff Davis

I balk at paying more than around $75-80 for a PS/1 or conventional diesel and maybe up to $175-200 for a top quality PS/2 steamer like the MTH Premier line, those would be in excellent to like new condition.  Since my intent is virtually always to upgrade to PS/2 or TMCC, I figure that's about the all I can put into them and still at least break even over just buying the command version.

You could probably get more for them on e-bay, but I guess that would be a PIA, also.

Just compare it to the loss in value of a new auto after ten years.

J Daddy,

thanks for the note about the ho brass, I guess it could be worse. I'll get the picture up soon. 

Have you guys ever had any luck getting a table at show to sell things?  My experience has been the guys who only have a couple items tend to get ignored.

JZ

Try to get a buddy or two to go in with you.

I don't blame you for ranting. As far as I am concerned, you are preaching to the choir. I had more than a dozen of the most expensive Premier PS-1 steamers. When it was made clear there would not even be an upgrade option (which, as we know later came to pass) I was scorched when selling them all. Caveat Emptor.

Scrappy

No offense, but I don't understand.  Why would toy trains be any different than anything else?  Is there anything manufactured that you can update and that keeps its value well?  Even wine, kept long enough, decreases in value.  But anything with electronics?  No way . . .

Cars? Buy a Caddy or Lexus new in 1990 and its the Premier caryou can take care of it well but you can't update it to new ten years later, and 13 years later i'ts - well, old and not worth alot.  Same for computers, and . . . everything.  Ten years from now, Vision locos, and PS3 Premiers, will be - well, decade old, obsolete-technology toy trains, not nearly as "good" as the newest ones then , and not worth a whole lot on the market.  I've never expected toy trains I buy have any significant resale value, even if they still look good years later. 

The era of collecting trains as an "investment" ended a long time ago. Nothing purchased in the last 10+ years is going to appreciate in value...especially MTH PS1.

Given the current state of the economy, it is a buyers market for houses, cars, aircraft and almost anything else you care to name. Everything has dropped in value since 2008. Trains are no different.

I guess the best way to get your money out of your trains is to run the wheels off of them.Recoup the cost in entertainment givin. 

Your trains are not an investment,they lost value the second you drove off the lot.

Hobby based items almost always end up being a bad "investment" unless you happen to get really lucky.  i always used to laugh at friends who would tell me how it was ok to spend the money they did on what ever collectable game was currenty popular.  you wake up one morning and the market just disapears,because the new cooler thing comes along.

It could be worse - Beanie Babies

J Daddy - looking for your e-mail.

Not my Natty Boh reefer!!!

Jerry

It's a great time for me to be getting back into the hobby because I missed the whole "command" revolution and conventional trains still seem just fine to me.   That Lionel Reading T-1 I drooled over for years at an unattainable $800-1000 when it was new (and I was in high school) now can be had for ~$300 (I got mine for $227 on eBay!)  A Williams Scale GG1 was $400-500, now they can be had on sale for under $200.  MTH PS1 stuff is... well, cheaper than conventional Lionel stuff was back then.  Of course you never know if they're going to work, which is why I don't have any... yet.  I always thought it was bizarre to buy toys as an investment.... but selfishly I'm glad so many did (and lost out) because now I can have all the stuff I want at a price I can (maybe) afford!  Honestly I can't wait to buy all this new awesome scale stuff in 5-10 years when the next greatest thing comes out and they're worth a pittance.  Also, I figure in 5 or so years, the modules to upgrade to command will drop significantly in price.  Or at least I hope so.

Ah, yes, my plan all along. Wear them out.

J Daddy - email sent. 

Also, edit your profile and scroll way down to the bottom to post a public email.

Mike - your name rings a bell but the Laurel Highlands RR was a long time ago.  Give me another hint

"Not my Natty Boh reefer!!!"   Jerry

Remember...it is not worth any more than you paid for it until you sell it.  Wait long enough and the prized Natty Boh reefer will be just like all the rest.

best way to tell what your train is worth..go to ebay and some train auction sites and see what there selling for...I'd lucked out with my3rd rail PPR S1 duplex..payed close to 500 from a train auction site..its was damaged..But was a easy fix for me..Dang thing proubley 1200 new..seeing them going for 800..mine is 37 out of 75 made..makes me happy..Trains goes up and down.. But mainly depends on the train.How many was made and the demand on how many people want it..At the one train show i was talking about..If Id had 500 to by that pre,ier bigboy very rare addition books for 2000..guy was desperate to sell it..never been ran..dang id wished id had the cash!

Look what the Lionel Century Club locos are selling for. Folks thought those would become instant collectables but the price dropped like a brick.

When the electronics die in one of my engines I might change over to RC.  Heck, I might start doing that even if they don't start to die.

The S-CAB from NSWL starts at $250 (transmitter, receiver/decoder) with additional receiver/decoder modules at $60.

And if I don't feel like doing that, I'll simply gut the engines of everything but the motor and run them using a DC power pack (negative on outer rail, positive on inner rail).

I didn't get into this hobby to resell my stuff, I got into it because I like to run trains.

What did we all do BEFORE we had sound in our engines?  I used to run my HO trains just fine without it, I expect I can do the same with O scale.

Any of these engines can be retrofitted with a basic F-N-R electronic reverse unit, or even a 3 position mechanical E-unit to continue with AC operation.

You are going to become an O Gauge prophet? Wow. I had no idea you were so prophetic.

The correct word in this context is profit.

Your ps-1 engines could be upgraded to ps-2 or tmcc.  These are relatively easy swaps and will probably cost less than $200.  The williams set can be easily rewired to run in series and that gets you slower speeds at no cost.

The only PS-1 equipment that held its value are the Premier Steamers and some of the larger RK steamers (e.g. Articulated/duplex).  Even these are starting to drop as newer PS-3 versions will be released with more features/detail.  Putting $200 in advanced electronics in a $1000 steam engine makes sense.  Putting $200 in what was a $400 diesel that is now only worth $200 while a brand new unit with even more features is $450 doesn't make sense.  Unless you have a rare paint scheme that someone else really wants you are fighting a losing battle.

When I heard about people buying this stuff 15 years ago as an "investment" I had to wonder about what they were thinking.  These are toys.  There value will be set by their market value at the time you sell them.  For most of this stuff the time to sell was about 14 years ago and you'd have been lucky to make 10%.

Instal the BCR into the older systems to end battery maintenance problems.  I have started a conversion process for my entire PS and PS2 fleet with testing of every locomotive and have yet to encounter any problems short of flawless operation.  No more battery replacement or worries about leakage.

Chuck's point is a good one. The item being broadly desired has a lot to do with the value, PS1 or not. 

I was out of the hobby when most of the early MTH Premier steam locos and diesels were being released in the mid-late 90's. After the PS2 versions were issued,the PS1 versions began to tank.In my eyes, they are still very nice engines,I've picked up mine at shows or at live auctions for 70-80% off.I have been able to obtain all the Premier PS1 Steam locomotives,some hae never been produced again of with the same cab numbers.I have bought several DOA with failed or scrambled boards and either added a BCR them or converted them to PS2. I picked up my Premier N&W class A with "burnt boards" for $200.00.She became a test bed for three rail DC and DCC conversions then I installed a PS2 upgrade kit .I'm now seeing the prices falling on early used PS2 Premier steam and diesel locomotives and Pre-Legacy Lionel scale steam. It truly is a buyer's market nowadays.

The LIONEL Century Club is probably the best example of recent train offerings as "collectibles".  Anybody buying modern era trains as an investment is delusional.  They are all toys to have fun with.  If you are looking to invest money for a return, talk to an investment counselor.

I beg to differ, the Natty Boh was a very limited number and at the very least will still be worth it's original price and most likely a bit more and while I'm not a betting man I venture to say 25-50 years from now that will still hold true. It was a special run, only 200 were made and they don't turn up very often. These are all the hallmarks of what would make something a collectible, they weren't "advertised" as collectible as many things are claimed today. Old trains are collectible because they were bought as toys and played with which thinned the herd  a good bit making them harder to find and in decent condition too. Now I have no intention of ever selling mine but if it were ever stolen or lost in a disaster of some kind to replace it would be more than what I paid for it, unlike 99% of the trains I own which is OK with me since again they weren't bought with the hope/intention of one day retiring on their sale.

The only ones who will ever profit on them will be my heirs who if they decide to sell them will have mostly profit since the had no initial investment of money or time like I did.

Jerry

Funny, I see people in my RC hobby doing the same.  Lamenting the fact these tings drop in value.

Of course the investment can be wise, if wisdom is sought when making it.  Proper research and analysis is needed like all investments.  Plus, you have to watch the market to find the best time to get out of your investment.  Then, just like stock market investing it is easy to lose or only break even.  Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.

The thing is, as exampled by the Star Wars phenomenon, it's not always the most mainstream pieces that end up fetching the highest prices.  The strange one offs and mistakes typically have higher values.

However in the end we are buying toys to play with.  I don't expect mine to be worth anything in 10 years time.  

For the last few years, I believe the four most widely used words in the English language have been"

"For Sale"   and      "Price Reduced"

Prior to those years, I think the two most over used words were:

"Limited Edition"  Many a sucker/dreamer is born every minute.

Greg

No reason to sell a PS1 steamer.  Just upgrade them to PS2.

Diesels are a little more of a financial decision due to the expense of two motors, especially with an ABA set.

.....

Dennis