Art, when you are able to plan a layout from the basement up that's the best thing going. Not too many of us have that extra option. We have to work with what is there already. Enjoying the build through the pics. Before you know it you will be done. Great job...........Paul
Hi Art, lot's of nice progress, everything is looking great !!!
Alex
Art,
This may be a little late, but I used Pacon Palst'rCraft impregnated sheets, and they worked great - practically no mess what so ever. They come in 5 lb and 20 lb boxes. I bought the 20 lb box, which has 396 feet of the 6-inch wide sheets, and still have about a fourth of it left. The 5 lb boxes cost around $28, and the 20 lb around $68 (cost me $42 back in 2011 from this place, but now is $68 w/free shipping!)
Good luck, and keep posting updates!
Thank you for sharing.
Alex
ibew701 posted:I thought I would contribute to Dad's thread and show the progress of the three panels I'm rebuilding for his layout. Two of them are in frames and prewired to the devices and one is ready for framing. Hope to have two ready to install on the layout by this next week.
Jim
This is absolutely phenomenal work. Great panels.
Thanks everyone for the kind words on the panels. I'll be working on installing the first two panels into the layout today. Dad and I will try and document the process of the installation and hook-up. RSJB18 - Yes I am a union electrician in Local 701, DuPage county Illinois. Been a member for 30 years and have done about every type of construction work except traffic lights. It will be a slow process today, as I am recovering from gall bladder surgery and the doctors orders are to take it easy. Can't even carry my own toolbox.
Jim
My son and I worked the last two days on the layout. We were able to remove the old control panel at my new Eola Classification yard area and replace it with the new one. It works and looks great except we had a small problem in that the existing wires from the switches are a little too short. This was caused by the new panel being a little larger. We decided to work on extending the wires later as the panel is use-able now as it is, we just need to be careful that we don’t try to extend it too far and pull any wires loose until we can fix the wire lengths.
Jim updated my three MTH TIU’s and cloned my three remotes. He also did the same for our train friend Stan. There were severe storm warnings out so we quit for the night. 15 tornadoes hit fairly close to us during that night, but none of us, family or friends were effected.
Yesterday, we moved to the Proviso yard control panel and removed the old control panel. A decision was made to improve the mounting of this one so we began rebuilding the layout bench work in this area. We moved two legs and removed the side frame. We decided on the new design, but decided to quit for the day.
Jim was wanting to see if he could fix the non-operating Red Owl sign on my Menard’s Red Owl building. As many of you know, they are very hard to access without damaging the building. He discovered that the wire to the sign did not have any current in it. So he ran power to it from a Miller power supply that he had and it works great.
I will post pictures soon.
Art
Here are pictures of the new Eola Yard panel during installation.
The old panel has been removed after all the wires were tagged and removed from the back of the panel.
The new panel has it's hinge installed and is ready to be installed into the side of the benchwork.
Here is a view from the back side of the new panel. We added a cabinet slide on the left of the picture. We used only one on the first panel and I didn't like the stress it put on the panel when you would pull the panel up from it's vertical position. These slides are great at holding the panel at different angles.
Here is the panel extended out and up so the operator can see and use the panel more clearly.
Here is the completed view with some of the switch connections made.
Jim
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Great work there Jim, I sure am glad you marked all the wires. I tried once to just move wires from one to another and got all messed up! Again you and your dad make a great pair!
ibew701 posted:Here are pictures of the new Eola Yard panel during installation.
The old panel has been removed after all the wires were tagged and removed from the back of the panel.
The new panel has it's hinge installed and is ready to be installed into the side of the benchwork.
Here is a view from the back side of the new panel. We added a cabinet slide on the left of the picture. We used only one on the first panel and I didn't like the stress it put on the panel when you would pull the panel up from it's vertical position. These slides are great at holding the panel at different angles.
Here is the panel extended out and up so the operator can see and use the panel more clearly.
Here is the completed view with some of the switch connections made.
Jim
Nice work ! Then again I would expect nothing less from an IBEW member.
Jim, thanks for adding the pictures of the Eola yard control panel. I love the way it turned out and am anxious to get the other two done. You make what would be an impossible job for me seem easy by watching and helping you install them.
I hope to get back to my plastering some time today. I have been worrying too much about doing it right and need to "just do it."
Art
Some great ideas on that panel!! The mounting and adjustable hinges and I am especially impressed with the labels next to the Euro style terminal strip terminals. Could you explain a little how you did that and what you used to make the labels? I have tried similar things before and it's a real PITA to get those labels all fitting properly and lined up so neatly...not to mention coming up with a 'short' descriptive name for each terminal!! Very nice work there, looks perfect!!
RTR12, thanks for the compliments. I design everything on MS Publisher and I have alot of patience.
Jim
Jim, the panels look great! Hope you are doing well and better since your surgery.
ibew701 posted:RTR12, thanks for the compliments. I design everything on MS Publisher and I have alot of patience.
Jim
You're welcome! And you must have a LOT of patience for those labels. By about the third one I am usually ready to throw something or go for the hammer! 
We always used a Brother or Brady labeler at work. I am now retired and I only have a Brother labeler here at home. It's nice, but it's still difficult to get everything uniform.
What did you print the labels on after using the MS Publisher and I am guessing the MS Publisher helps with the uniform lengths? It's hard to get uniform lengths with the Brother labeler.
Thanks for anything more you can add here, and again very nice work there.
I use three different labelers at work, which are more complicated than the brother p-touch. We are required to mark & tag all of our work. I have used MS Publisher for a long time and am used to it. I use it for all the panel designs also. I can build designs to exact size very easily. The terminal labels are printed on full sheet labels and then cut with scissors by hand.
Jim
Thanks again Jim. I think I might look around for something PC based and try the full sheets like Avery or something like that. Might be easier to get all lined up that way? Anyway, thanks for explaining further.
Art,
I wish I could come over and sling some plaster for you. Jist slather it right on those gauze sheets. You'll be fine. The panels alone are worth the price of admission. They don't get any better. Wow !
Scrappy
Scrapiron Scher posted:Art,
I wish I could come over and sling some plaster for you. Jist slather it right on those gauze sheets. You'll be fine. The panels alone are worth the price of admission. They don't get any better. Wow !
Scrappy
Thanks, Elliot. I wish you were close enough to come over too, I would welcome the help and encouragement.
Jim's control panels have really evolved since he started making them. His first one is the one he did for me to control the switches for my Chicago Union Station passenger terminal area. I loved it, but he wants to replace it as soon as possible. We have added the switches in my Hodgkins industrial area to this panel so I am anxious to get it up and running also.
Art
For sticking on those plaster castings I use a product called structolite. The problem I always had with hydrocal was how quickly it sets up and I end up throwing away more than I put on the layout! The other thing I really like about structolite is it has some texture to it. The aggregate in the structolite I think is ground walnut shell or something similar. Anyhow it makes the result very light and very strong, sort of like putting straw in the adobe when making bricks! Have a spray water bottle with 'wet' water in it, spritz the plaster wall, the underside of the casting, slather on some structolite on the casting and stick on the layout. Then take a little structolite and force it in around the edges of the casting. The grit in the structolite will give you a great look. BTW it takes paint and scenery stuff really well.
https://www.menards.com/main/b.../p-1444445395941.htm
Love the layout and those panels would look much better on my layout! 
Russ
looks terrific guys keep up the good work
Very nice!
Peter
ChiloquinRuss posted:For sticking on those plaster castings I use a product called structolite. The problem I always had with hydrocal was how quickly it sets up and I end up throwing away more than I put on the layout! The other thing I really like about structolite is it has some texture to it. The aggregate in the structolite I think is ground walnut shell or something similar. Anyhow it makes the result very light and very strong, sort of like putting straw in the adobe when making bricks! Have a spray water bottle with 'wet' water in it, spritz the plaster wall, the underside of the casting, slather on some structolite on the casting and stick on the layout. Then take a little structolite and force it in around the edges of the casting. The grit in the structolite will give you a great look. BTW it takes paint and scenery stuff really well.
https://www.menards.com/main/b.../p-1444445395941.htm
Love the layout and those panels would look much better on my layout!
Structolite is great stuff. Highly recommended.
If any of you thought that I might have gone to sleep on my layout progress, you wouldn't be too far off. Progress has slowed to a snail's pace lately.
Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies. I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge. The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc. I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?) I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.
Here is what it looks like after the most recent layer of plaster over the plaster cloth base.
The following pictures are pictures of real riverbanks that are close to what I am after.
Art
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" I have been worrying too much about doing it right and need to "just do it."
Art"
Truer words were never written.
Chugman posted:... The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc. I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?) I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings...
If someone gives an opinion that tactlessly, I would politely ask to see pictures of THEIR layout. 9 times out of 10, that'll shut them up.
Anyone who is actively building a layout has my respect.
Keep up the great work, Art! It looks very tedious work but just picture your Spencer Reefers going around that bend when it is completed!
Your progress is looking good!
As far as the comments go that you received, if I made a comment like that growing up I'd be instantly put to work "fixing" the problem...for free labor. Sounds to me like your friends just volunteered to donate some time!! 
.
Art, I think things are looking food, go at your own pace! That way you get done the way you want and are one happy camper with the finished product! Keep up the good work, I think your updates are wonderful!!
Art, I think once you add some more rocks and get them colored you can envision more of what it's going to look like. Unpainted plaster even with rock castings still has that blank canvas look. Once you get some color on the rocks and add bushes and trees. It will start to come alive.
If you are finding you need larger rock castings. Checkout. www.cripplebush.net I've seen these at shows over the years and they look pretty good. Made out of rubber. I just have no experience with them. They do offer a much larger footprint , are ready to place on the layout and you maybe able to match some of them up with the photos you posted.
Art, the photos of the "real thing" you are modeling puts what you are doing in context. Perhaps your buddies didn't have the benefit of your goal.
Regardless, you are on the right path--keep going.
Thanks, guys.
Art
Hi Art, this is a fantastic thread and educational with tips! Thanks so much for keeping us posted. The control panels are beautiful.
Chugman posted:Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies. I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge. The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc. I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?) I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.
Art
Art:
I agree with MALLARD4468: "If someone gives an opinion that tactlessly, I would politely ask to see pictures of THEIR layout." I also agree that 9 times out of 10 it would tend to shut them up. I will add, because I can be a caustic curmudgeon, that anyone who does have a nice layout who criticizes someone else's isn't much of a friend.
I say this last part because we've all seen many layouts. Some are charming, some are awe inspiring, some are haphazard and lazy, but the builder -- who's likely more of an operator -- seems happy so we leave it alone. Others .... somehow .... miss the mark. The bottom line is we all know how much work this takes and how many things can conspire to sabotage our original vision. Because of this, if we see something that doesn't square with our own vision, we keep it to ourselves because we understand how much time and energy the guy has invested. We also understand that what the guy is doing makes him happy.
That said, I can assure you, from what I've seen of your layout and vision, yours in the "awe-inspiring" category. Once you finish out your riverbank/hillside following the prototype examples you've shown us, we'll be dazzled as much as we are by your bridges, fascia ... and everything else.
Please keep up the good work and please keep us posted.
Steven J. Serenska
Art,
Some rock work suggestions:
1) Continue to work from photos
2) Ignore the riff raff comments and trust your eyes.
3) Work SMALL sections at a time to get rock "timing" (speed at which you get your castings and surrounding filler to dry) and coloring down. Don't spread your work out unfinished and uncolored. That makes it harder.
4) Return to the photos and study. Color a casting BEFORE you set it on the hillside. Notice how many colors naturally exist in the rocks in your photos. Color the rocks sparingly and very little at a time. Work with bright light because when you get the casting on the hillside it will look MUCH darker than at your workbench. Some material is more absorptive than others so allow to dry before building up color.
5) DRYBRUSH Rock tips with white. You will be amazed how that brings out detail, BUT put dark stains into crevices first. DRYBRUSH last.
6) Avoid the same rock mold and size. Go to Bragdon's and get the large horizontal molds (two or three). Use an entire mold and apply. Then cast in the mold, break it up, and apply smaller pieces. Rotate and reverse.
7) Did I mention ignore the opinions of riff raff?
8) STUDY your photos !
9) Good luck
Eliot "Scrapiron" Scher
Art,
Mallard, Steven, and Elliot all have great advice! I just want to reemphasize, I think you are doing a great job. The naysayers should recognize what you showed them is a work in progress! I'm more sensitive than most men, getting discouraged instead of mad at someone who criticizes. I have to keep telling myself to ignore those who offer criticism that is not constructive. Keep up the good work! I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes!
Chugman posted:Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies. I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge. The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc. I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?) I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.
The following pictures are pictures of real riverbanks that are close to what I am after.
Art
Very nice start Art! Guess you need better friends and quit going to that show
Mark Boyce posted:Art,
..., getting discouraged instead of mad at someone who criticizes. I have to keep telling myself to ignore those who offer criticism that is not constructive. ...!
Decades ago, a woman who was active in the Kennedy Whitehouse, wrote a book, "A Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior," and in it she addressed criticizing others. She said we should only criticize when asked to do so, and when asked, DON'T.
I've used that as my guide since I first heard her say that (not a simple task for a teacher).
So, I'm not criticizing (which is far different from constructive suggestions) others by saying that; I'm simply agreeing with you, Mark, and doing so publicly.
FrankM
Scrapiron Scher posted:Art,
Some rock work suggestions:
1) Continue...
2) Ignore ...
3) Work SMALL sections....
4) Return to the photos and study. ....
5) DRYBRUSH Rock tips with white.....
6) Avoid the same rock mold and size. ....
8) STUDY your photos !
9) Good luck
Eliot "Scrapiron" Scher
Now, this man - this artist - understands constructive suggestions!!!!!
FrankM. IMO.
Frank,
You always have a great way of expressing yourself. Yes, constructive expressions! I like that term much better than constructive criticism, which I have heard since school days. I agree too that I try to only offer it when asked, unless I see a dangerous situation - seldom the case.
Art, I really enjoy watching your progress. Scenery is tedious work. But I think after looking at your cliff and looking at the photos of what you want I believe that once you put your vegetation on you will have what you want. A very nice looking cliff............Paul
