LAYOUT FEEDBACK NEEDED

is this your layout or a club layout?  what are the dimensions of the space?

LI Train - this is my own layout - sorry you couldn't see the grid pattern - the layout is 18 ft. X 22 ft. - the entire room is 22.5 ft X 22.5 ft.  Bottom part of room is reserved for work bench, door and shelving units.

Looks like you have four crossovers.  I am curious to know what the degree of each is.  Maybe 45 degree, but configuration makes any standard crossover difficult to figure out.

I like it. You don't need reverse capabilities on the blue line, because you have crossovers both directions between red and blue. Takes a little extra effort to turn the blue train, but that's part of the fun.

Not sure what your goal is but I like it. The heavy duty mainline look and extended running via the dog bone will make running trains look like they are going somewhere other than a circle. Nice buildings and scenery and it'll be great!

Looks like you have four crossovers.  I am curious to know what the degree of each is.  Maybe 45 degree, but configuration makes any standard crossover difficult to figure out.

Bob - no crossovers on this layout - what you see in the upper right corner is an over and under configuration.  

Paul,

I played around with your design and this is what I came up with using AtlasO track with a Ross 11* double crossover. I kept all curve radius as you described. All turnouts are O-72. If you want to add reversing capability to the blue line in your design, think about dropping below the layout for a reverse loop.

Good stuff there....

My favorite is incorporated:  Long, double-tracked rides.  Nice.

Stewart - I really like the Ross dbl X - I think I'll go with that idea - thanx for taking the time to review my plan!  When you suggest "dropping below the layout for a reverse loop" do you mean create a reverse loop coming off the blue track in the lower left side of the layout??  If so, that would be a great idea - unfortunately I don't have room to do this -

Thanx again

Paul

Stewart - do you have a part # for the Ross switch?

Paul

The part # listed on the RCS price sheet is Double Crossover - 175.

Paul,

There are a couple of places where I could place reverse loops for the blue line. Could you please provide the exact dimensions of the available space for the layout?

Stewart - the exact dimensions of the layout is:  22 ft (from left to right) and 18 ft (from top to bottom).  I can't enlarge that space any because I need room for my bench and work table. I can't enlarge layout below the Ross switch and the other three sides back up to the walls.

Paul

Paul,

Here is how the plan would fit into a 22' x 18' area. As you can see, there is room to move and add a little more track. I'll keep tinkering around.

Stewart - the original that I posted showed the entire dimensions of the room.  It is actually 22 ft X 22 ft.  According to the track I used in the layout (using Railmodeller program) I don't have the space that's indicated on the right side of the plan you just sent me. I don't know why you have more space on yours.  Also, I can't expand any more below the Ross switch and the right hand loop as I have attic stairs that need to be pulled down on the right side of the room.

Again - thanx for all your help and advice

Paul

Personally, I don't favor the use of the double crossover. Two single crossovers are just as functional and less expensive. If there is a question of space, do something like this...

Stewart - I see why you're plan has more room on the right side - there are 4-40" pcs of track going across the top section - I believe you have only 3.  Also there are 3-40" pcs of track going down the left side instead of 2.

Paul

"Personally, I don't favor the use of the double crossover. Two single crossovers are just as functional and less expensive. If there is a question of space, do something like this.."

Elliot - I believe I originally used 2 single crossovers in my original plan.  If you are saying it would be "cheaper" I'll probably go with that.  After looking over the Ross switch price list I found it to be rather confusing if you are not familiar with the various types.  Are you concerned also about an operational problem with the Ross switch or is it just a cost concern????

Paul

Thanx for you input!

I would suggest putting another set of crossovers on the opposite side of the layout. This allows for more options when running trains, being able to run around a train while another is parked. It woud require 8 switches total, but gives you many more options when running, especially if you have reverse loops. 

You have a pair of x-overs at the bottom of your plan, just add another  the top of the track plan.

You're welcome Paul. The arrangement that I suggested will also allow you to operate at higher speed through the crossovers because of the more natural alignment. There is no real problem with the Ross double crossover. It would be OK to use, but it's real purpose is to save space. In this case, space isn't really the problem, so why pay extra for the diamond when all you really need is the 4 switches.

Here's another rendering: I extended the track work to fill most of the empty space. I reworked the yard area. I also moved the double crossover to between the switches. This will allow the blue loop to access the reverse loops. The second double crossover can be ignored.  

This was done quickly (I'm at work.) When I get home, I will more thoroughly explain the layout.

You have plenty of long straight track on the left and the top to use Ross Regular switches (11 degree) for the cross overs. They will give you a 4 1/4" track center, and if you want it more than that, just add a small straight section between switches. They will give you very nice, high speed cross over.

This is a crossover with Ross Regular switches, with a 6" track spacing.

Stewart - I like the placement of the double crossovers.  I'll certainly give that some more thought.  I would love to extend the yard rails but I need the space for an industrial area.

Thanx again-

Paul

 "The arrangement that I suggested will also allow you to operate at higher speed through the crossovers because of the more natural alignment." 

Elliot - when you say "the arrangement that I suggested" on the crossovers - did you mean to separate them more rather than keeping them closer together as I have them in my track plan?

Paul, look closely at the copy of Stewart's drawing I re-posted earlier. I added a couple of red lines to indicate the placement of the two single crossovers. The double crossover would be removed.

I saw Stewart's latest suggestion, before I went grocery shopping, but haven't had time to really mull it over. Because he has moved it and added a second one to an area of the layout that doesn't have as much length of straight track, the double crossovers make a little more sense. The real question then becomes, do their additions allow better or more interesting operation, or do they just look cool.

Elliot - I saw the red lines in Stewart's drawing - basically it is what I had in my original plan (top of page).  Are you saying they should be spread apart more (as you indicate with your red lines) or should they be close together (as in my original posting)?

Paul, what I drew there was just a little different. Schematically the same, but with a slightly different alignment, where the curved leg is the mainline of the inner loop.

This is what I came up with based on Stewart's latest. I see that in order for him to get that straight, and the two double crossovers, into left side of the plan, he squeezed your yard space down.

In this modification, I have removed both double crossovers in favor of two single crossovers for better yard access, and then two double slips, which will give you nice smooth lines for the trains, so they don't have to do a "wiggle" when you cross over.

Cost of 2 double slips is less than one double crossover.

Using AtlasO O-72 switches, I was unable to keep the track spacing. Switching to #5 AtlasO switches, I was able to keep the track spacing. AtlasO lists the #5 switches at $107.95. (With some searching, you should be able to find them for less.) At MSRP, that's $431.80. The Ross Double Crossover lists for $449.95 with DZ1000's. With the #5's, I was also able to keep the four track yard and gained some extra area.

This track plan does not use any special cut pieces. As you can see, you have room to add more track if you wish, but remains true to your design posted above.

Just to give you some alternative ideas, here are three additional configurations. The first is the double crossover I posted earlier. The second configuration uses two double slip switches, which Elliot also mentioned. This will eat a lot of real estate and at MSRP $219 for the double slips, will cost the most. The third shows O-72's and the spacing problems you would encounter.

Stewart & Elliot - you guys are great!  I feel privileged to be a part of the OGR family as the help and advice both of you have provided me will help me in the planning of my layout.  There are a lot of possibilities which I will continue to "mull over" - right now I like the use of the #5 AtlasO switches for the crossovers - I'm certainly going to try to work them into the configuration.

Thanx again to both of you for sharing your expertise!

Paul 

Stewart - would you happen to have the entire layout plan with all the tracks identified as you showed in your last posting????  If so, can you send it to me.

Thanx,

Paul

Paul,

The file is on my home computer, so I will post it later today for you. (around 3)

Paul,

Here is the Scarm track plan.

Thanx, Stewart!

You're quite welcome Paul, it's my pleasure. Track planning is one of my favorite parts of the hobby, and my layout is mostly planned, so I get my fix by helping others.

Win-win.