Legacy upgrade

Upgrading to Legacy is very complicated and very expensive.  In fact there are only two guys on this forum that do upgrades.  @Bruk and @Sid's Trains.  You would be better off converting to TMCC with ERR cruise, Railsounds 4.0 or 5.0, fan driven smoke unit with @gunrunnerjohn super chuffer for Rule 5 for steam locos.

I'm sure others will chime in.  Also this question would of been better suited for the TMCC, Legacy, ERR section of the forum.  Wouldn't be surprised if it gets moved.

Actually there are others who have done Legacy upgrades but the two mentioned are most well known.
Lionel is the only source for Legacy electronics. They are only applicable to DC motored engines. There are Legacy electronic boards that are similar to Electric Railroad components but unlike ERR kits they require you to make your own wiring harnesses which all Legacy upgrades require you to do.
There are no manuals. Best have some background in electronics before trying it yourself.

Pete

I've done a couple Legacy upgrades, but as Gary mentions, it's more work and money.  I actually have one of Bruk's creations in captivity, the JLC Challenger upgraded to most of the features of the Vision Line Challenger.

Bill...I moved this to the Lionel Legacy forum which is where it should be.  This is not a topic about 3-rail scale trains.  For your future reference, there is a detailed definition of what 3-rail scale is in that forum.

Gentlemen, Thanks for weighing in on my issue. First, this is what happens when you know nothing about a subject. It seems this is not a good strategy for me with only two Legacy equipped units. Do you have a recommendation on what I can read to decide what sort of system will be most benefit me and my limited- at- best knowledge?  Thanks for the input.  Bill

Try this ERR selection guide to start - the site also has manuals you can download to get an idea of what is involved.

ERR by 3rd Rail

Legacy is backwards compatible to TMCC trains. I think your approach is somewhat the problem.

What you need to list is the engines you are considering upgrading (yes, specific model numbers example 6-18XXXX) or details about them like can motor VS pullmor, as this determines what electronics are needed.

But in another honest moment between train fans, upgrading is a costly adventure and has only gone up in cost as electronics supply crunch happens. Does putting $200-$300- maybe even more in electronics into an engine that isn't worth $200 on a good day make any sense? I'm not saying this to downplay your collection or bash upgrades, there is a time and place, It is a fun learning experience, but again, the almighty dollar does come into play. Sometimes, it much more viable to sell off a valuable conventional engine in stock form and buy the modern used TMCC equipped equivalent for less than it would take to upgrade a conventional engine adding TMCC and sounds. Not to mention, can motors perform much better at slower speeds and so again, depending on what you have and were intending to upgrade the modern already command model might be night and day improved VS throwing a bunch of money into an olde model.

Another factor that comes into play- you could just get a Legacy Powermaster and vary the voltage on the track and run conventional trains via remote the way and since you are only doing the track, nothing to the engines potentially saving you $$. Again, one and done vs modifying each engine.

As an example in my own adventure of Lionel trains, I was given a classic Lionel FM Trainmaster when I was first starting out. It had the classic "they left the horn D battery in it" syndrome and the frame was rusty, the handrails even rusted on the plastic shell, it looked rough. I decided to put an ERR AC commander and rail sounds. I cleaned it all up as best I could with a wire brush, painted the frame where it was bad, cleaned up the shell as much as possible, but I regret it to this day because later, I bought a K-line that is 10 times the details, can motored, TMCC with smoke for like $180. Yes, there is something quaint about the original FM and it is one heck of puller. All I'm trying to explain is how my mental picture changed. I didn't "save" any money upgrading to TMCC. In fact, I have a modified engine that isn't worth much, probably less than if I had kept it original and just cleaned up.

Hindsight is 20-20 is all I'm trying to get at.

If you're looking to "learn the ropes" and do some basic upgrades, then upgrading will work for you.  Also, if you have a somewhat unique locomotive and want it upgraded to command control, then the upgrade is the ticket.  As Vernon as stated, the parts for an upgrade are going to be $200-$300, and then there's the labor involved.

For a beginner, I do recommend the ERR upgrades, they're much simpler and cheaper than launching into a full Legacy upgrade where you have to build all the wiring from scratch.  I also recommend your upgrade career start with a diesel, they're considerably simpler than a steamer to do an upgrade.

As mentioned by the masters, start out with something simple, master that craft, and then move on to tougher assignments, ……if still unsure, post up a picture of your first victim/candidate for upgrades. I’m sure all of us here will give pointers and or suggestions of how to approach, or if even to approach……..I’d agree with above, ERR is fully compatible with your new to you Legacy remote system, and is quite user friendly, even for programming…….

Pat

Look for youtube videos on how too.  There's lots of guys who do there own upgrades and post on Youtube.

Fellas, Thanks for weighing in on my issue. It seems purchasing the Legacy Control System was not a good solution for me. With help from the members here, it sounds like I need to have someone look at my roster of engines (with all the information) and provide me some guidance on what my options could be. I have little in the way of understanding right now. Can anyone recommend someone (company or otherwise) to look at the list and advise me? I would be pleased to pay for that advice and help. I have some old engines right up to a new Lionel Mohawk. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Bill

Well, any Legacy or TMCC locomotives in your stable will work great with the Legacy system.  If  you have conventional models, then a Legacy PowerMaster is probably in your want list.

If you post your list of equipment here, we can certainly give you some guidance.

@Bill Park posted:

Fellas, Thanks for weighing in on my issue. It seems purchasing the Legacy Control System was not a good solution for me. With help from the members here, it sounds like I need to have someone look at my roster of engines (with all the information) and provide me some guidance on what my options could be. I have little in the way of understanding right now. Can anyone recommend someone (company or otherwise) to look at the list and advise me? I would be pleased to pay for that advice and help. I have some old engines right up to a new Lionel Mohawk. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Bill

If you have engines such as the new Lionel Mohawk, then buying the remote system was one of the best things you did, not a bad thing,…….you will be able to access a lot more of the features via the remote then ever could doing it conventionally…….

if you’ve never used the legacy system before, and you have a layout or even just an oval of track set up, you owe it to yourself to try out your new to you system,…..sit back and enjoy your new Mohawk via the remote, and then run a plain old conventional engine, ……there’s no comparison, you might get hooked, and retract your statement,……😉

Pat

Thanks for your help and advice on this guys. A friend with enough knowledge to be dangerous helped me get the Legacy started. I do have a new Lionel L2-A and of course running off of the Legacy system was awesome. And it eliminated all of the block controls. So my first blush with it was very satisfying. I have several other Legacy equipped engines but all the rest are just conventional. I think what be a potential goal would be to have each engine able to be selected to run and the very basic features of speed and direction and maybe whistle implemented. A good start is to inventory my engines and post that. Again, thanks for your help.  Bill

The ERR TMCC upgrades that we mentioned will allow you full control and sound under command control.

Thanks John, I am going to list my engines later today. Is this any work you would be interested in doing for me?

Bill, first step is to see what you have and decide what you'd like to accomplish.

There are 2 options with Legacy.

1. Upgrade a conventional engine to use TMCC/legacy.  More sound, somewhat better speed control.  But the Pulmor motors will never run "slow and smooth" as the DC Can motors do.   Gets expensive.  I have done it on 1, but will probably leave the rest of my postwar fleet alone.

2. Be able to run your conventional engines with the Legacy control so you are not tied to the transformer and can walk around the layout running your conventional engines.  This needs a Legacy Powermaster added to your system. To let the Legacy control dial work  like your transformer handle.    It also lets the legacy bell, horn  control work on conventional engines.     About the price of 1 upgrade for the Legacy Powermaster.

Actually, the Legacy Powermaster is considerably cheaper than one full upgrade to TMCC, and a good option if you have a lot of conventional stuff to run.