Originally Posted by MartyE:
IDK about the rest of you but I welcome not having to answer my phone and while I understand that some folks do HAVE to answer does the 2 minutes mean life or death?
Sorry this will only stir the pot again and to be honest this pot has been stewing so long it's burnt out. Can someone explain how a cell phone promotes the hobby?
And again, the EDTCA welcomes us as their guest. Does it really harm us to follow a few simple rules over the course of 3 days and be benefited by good times and trains...
I'd love to hear Eddie G's point of view since he's a long timer. I bet he enjoys the show without worrying about a phone.
Maybe the rule is old and outdated but it sure keeps the annoying cell phone talkers out of the halls. Be careful what you wish for because nothing is more annoying than people with cell phone that think they are the only ones that matter...then multiply by 14,000.
BTW I have used my smart phone for lists and make sure I am well out of the way before I even look at it. Difference is I'm not talking twice my normal level (because for some reason most people don't understand that they don't have to shout) and I am not dealing with a 2nd party. In this way I see no difference than looking at a notebook. If I was asked to put it away, then away it goes. or I'd go to an exit.
Marty, at first I thought that your account might have been hacked by Eddie G. but that is not the case ...correct? The York phone use topic has been a recurring/stewing topic on this and other forums just as often as the debates on mfr. quality control and brand loyalties. This cellphone topic seems to stew long because there is still belief by enough people that the topic is important and not burnt out. Just like in life, love, religion, politics, and laws ...it sometimes takes longer for things to change or remain the same. The "horse" might still have some life. But I can understand some cases where change might not be so good. I think I was happier, or at least less mad, when there were only 4 television networks and only channels 2 through 13 or even less when we were exclusively Over The Air.
First off, I don't have a "smart phone" and probably use less than 20 minutes of air time in a month in my prepaid plan. As to your request to explain how the use of a cell phone promotes the hobby, I think the explanation lies somewhere within the answer to the question: Does a ban on cell phones (or photos) demote and/or reduce the public's perception and subsequent willingness to be a part of this hobby? I think think the EDiv's current "no cell phone use in the halls" and "no photography in any hall" restrictions creates a negative image to the public (model RR hobbyists and non-hobbyists) who are not TCA members. There are probably a significant number of people who choose not to join the TCA because they are put off by such restrictions that are universally permitted by every other organization or train meet.
The E.Div's purpose is defined in the bylaws:
--The purpose of the Eastern Division shall be to preserve the history of train collecting and to encourage the pursuit of this activity through research, education, community outreach, fellowship, and sponsorship of train meets.
and deliberately lacks the "promote" line that the TCA national and other divisions include in their bylaws:
"To develop an appreciation of and to preserve an important segment of history - Tinplate Toy Trains - through research, education, community outreach, fellowship, establishment of collecting standards, and to promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains.
So does the E.Div need to be required to "promote the growth and enjoyment" of the hobby? I guess that answer depends on your interpretation of E.Div's "encourage the pursuit... through ...community outreach and sponsorship of train meets." From what I see at York and other train meets, participation by table holders and some attendants is down. The E.Div's York published badge request number is flawed because the number does not count actual attendance - which would be difficult to effectively and efficiently accomplish in such a multi-building setup. TCA membership is declining. How is the E.Div "encouraging the pursuit" of the train collecting hobby activity when their meets are closed to non-members or hobbyists and open to those that already pursue the hobby. Sounds similar to the "preaching to the choir" analogy.
IMO, the National TCA should be more active in ensuring that it's regional divisions universally abide by the mission statement of the national organization to which they are affiliated or chartered. The Nat'l TCA grew in membership from the 1980's to the 2001 high water mark. With that growth and that era's train collecting market psyche the E.Div's York meet provided the E.Div with increased power, status and industry influence. During this go-go period TCA members, dealers, and manufacturers were happy with the ride. Then, BOOM! manufacturer turmoil: lawsuits flying, consolidations, reorganizations, liquidations, dealership closings and a national economic crisis. Membership decreases and a scaled back O gauge market will or has lead to rethinking Std. Operating Procedures especially those dealers and manufacturers that helped make the E.Div.'s York meet grow from a hall of members trading trains to a grand industry event.
I disagree that we are the E.Div's "guest" at York. Despite the ever increasing psychological misuse of the word "guest" by the likes of hotel chains, Target and other retailers we are their and the E.Div's customer. As a customer, we can choose where we shop. So if the E.Div or the national TCA chooses to ignore their customers, the customers (members, dealers, manufacturers) will eventually find other sources (train meets, online, and direct sales) to get their information and products to the users. Their appears to be a growth in interest by dealers and manufacturers with some other regions' large train shows. The E.Div. should not ignore these trending numbers or it will shrink back to its one hall member "trading" event.
Originally Posted by RL NYC:
The problem is that the cell phone rule is outdated and a bit too heavy-handed. But like many things in life it wouldn't be necessary to have a rule if people exercised good jugment (sp) and basic manners.
So true and I'd like to think that TCA members have better manners than the general public where a discreet, short and to the point phone conversation is often the exception and not the norm. I miss the phone booth.
Originally Posted by eddie g:
NO cell phones in the halls. That'a (sp) the rule. Either abide by it or don't go to the meet. Why must you Allan, which supprise's (sp) me, start something like this on the forum. If you don't like the rule don't GO. This is really stupid. You & Rich don't like the way York is run because neither of you are COLLECTORS. It's a collectors meet. TCA do you know what it stands for? You are lucky you have the Orange & purple halls to promote the new stuff.
Originally Posted by MartyE:
Thanks Eddie. I kinda figured this was your thought on this.
Like clock work every spring and fall someone must drag this horse carcass out of the ground and give it a few hundred more whacks.
If York becomes less relevant, it won't be because of the cell phone rule.
Originally Posted by eddie g:
Eddie and Marty, just as you, Alan & Rich have every right to offer their personal and business opinions. If the phone rule does change, will you no longer attend or be a member? Currently, the E.Div. does not equally enforce the phone ban between table holders and walking attendees. I'm not referring to the use of a cell phone or laptop to process credit card payments. For years I saw numerous table holding members and dealers (as indicated on the 8 8x11 hall maps with the circle and arrows and table listing on the back) talking (sometimes loudly and often not about trains) on cell phones without warning or approach by one E.Div. official or security staff. The "horse"
Arguably, you the "collector" might be considered the lucky one to have the Orange and Purple Halls to keep Blue/Silver going. IMO, the growth (dealer/mfr.) that filled the Orange (formerly Yellow/Gold) and Purple halls was the financial life blood that helped the E.Div. grow in prominence and power. The Orange and Purple Hall's dealer/mfr. registration financial blood is probably what primarily pays the E.Div's bills.
Your use of fear: the loud, self absorbed cell users are in the stores and malls now, do we want them into our last bastion and cellphone-free oasis (except of course for those aforementioned table holding members and dealers - as indicated on the 8 8x11 hall maps with the circle and arrows and table listing on the back -) because we will eventually be overrun by rude and loud talking cell phone users is the position that is like the membership numbers ...getting old and withered.
On a related topic - FWIW, I've been banged in the ankle more times by scooter-chairs and wheelchairs at York than strollers at other events.
You too should be careful for what you wish for; as you also might get it i.e. a one hall, one day trading event.