The Lionel 2015 Volume 2 catalog is here at long last, after long wait. Its been a interesting week with the catalog leaks, trying to see what is in it. Actually, I appreciate the catalog leaks. I like the layout of this book and lots of offerings. I didn't expect a big book. I'm not disappointed at all.
The Milwaukee Road E-7's jumped at me. I'm glad they are not painted in the UP Yellow.
I'm sure everyone has thoughts to share. Are you pleased? Disappointed?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Not disappointed, always like a new catalog. I want one in my hands before I make any decisions. Not being a nit picker, I am happy with what is offered. As I have stated before an Ohio Central GP would wet my pants but it appears MTH has a lock on that road.
I like the little buildings that make noise. I know its not a new idea, but its still good to see them re-appear. Hopefully the sound quality is good enough that it sounds like more than just garbled junk.
The note about the UP business train in the next catalog is a big plus.
Not sure I like the way they worded the explanation of tooling for the SD60E. It reads as if its going to be a new shell on the existing SD60 TMCC underframe with the shallow fuel tank. I really hope they clarify what they're going to do with this thing.
Haven't really looked thru it yet but was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design, rather plain and boring, no real imagination or thought put into it. Brian Morans was much more vibrant and looked old school Lionel.
Jerry
Interesting Crane Building with crane sounds. I also see a LOT of PRR N5b cabin cars- smoke & no smoke versions.
I was very disappointed in the catalog just a lot of remakes of items already done if you are going to charge what you are asking for then let it be something different I love scale both diesel and steam and I have mostly legacy and it was a real letdown I have the first FEF and I love it I have SD40 GP9 E8 the SD60E were nice looking but I will wait and pick them up at York when they are looking to sell as for the locos that are weathered they look good but not for me so I hope people can find something but the prices are to high and the selection is low
Nothing of interest to me, personally. I notice that Lionel's made-in-USA "6464 sized" boxcars now list for $85. Wow.
I found the new TOFC cars to be interesting because it seems that some more Weaver tooling has found a new owner.
was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design,
Interesting Jerry- because I must say, the runner up designs would make nice offerings.
The logging shanty with sounds is a neat offering, Nice addition to a layout.
was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design, rather plain and boring, no real imagination or thought put into it. Jerry
To me, that winning car really looks like something from a starter set..... just sayin'. 
was very disappointed with the Design Your Own Boxcar winning design,
Interesting Jerry- because I must say, the runner up designs would make nice offerings.
The logging shanty with sounds is a neat offering, Nice addition to a layout.
I like the 2nd place car I would have purchased that one
Overall it's a bit disappointing. Don't like the Design Your Own Boxcar, FEF's are a little pricey (a smoking whistle can't cost that much) and, in general, nothing really caught my eye except the Milk Cars. I may pre-order those.
The logging shanty looks like the boy scout camp with sound added.
Some nice stuff in there, but the prices are really getting up there. 650 for a diesel? Yes, I know 550 or so street price, but still - and you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture. The rolling stock prices, as others have said - $80 for a 9700 style boxcar ( even figure 65 for street price) is insane.
As much as I'd like a 60E, not sure I can get myself to pay that for a diesel.
The new TOFC's are really cool. I like the Milwaukee Road semi-truck . Where's the flat car?
Some nice stuff in there, but the prices are really getting up there. 650 for a diesel? Yes, I know 550 or so street price, but still - and you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture. The rolling stock prices, as others have said - $80 for a 9700 style boxcar ( even figure 65 for street price) is insane.
As much as I'd like a 60E, not sure I can get myself to pay that for a diesel.
Agree, I ran the First Responder past my wife this morning. It didn't go well. Something about children....college.....food....etc. LOL. I need it to be LC in the $250 range for her to give the green light.
Love the First Responder. My kids will like the universal remote!
There's nothing I really need, but maybe for later on.
I won't say it's a bad offering though.
What I do like:
What I don't like:
I always like the "buzz"of a new catalog but that's tempered by the fact that I already know there's not going to be much for me. And that's fine. I run a PW-style toy train layout -- and some tinplate -- so the last several years of Lionel catalogs (basically since they dropped the Conventional Classics) have been slim pickings. No interest at all in Legacy or other high-priced stuff.
I have picked up some of the LC+ locos including a few from this year's Vol. 1, and may add to that line.
EDIT: Forgot about some of the 115th anniversary items. The box car looks cool and will be nice to have. And that neon clock for the train room is calling my name! 
Why are you saying the prices are too high?
Do you have a 100' x 40' sized track layout and you have to fill it with 200 freight cars in six months? If that was the case, then the prices would be too high.
If you were only going to buy 4 or 5 freight cars in the next year, then the prices would not be too huge.
The prices are high because these are all limited quantities now and there are not very many train stores remaining that sell Lionel.
Andrew
I'll get one of those 115th boxcars, perhaps some gear as well. 
My quick thoughts:
My O gauge buying is winding down as I now pretty much have most of what I want and the escalating pricing of the new stuff quickly tempers any temptation to buy or upgrade the existing roster.
The 2-8-0 WM is a generic rehash of the 2001 2-8-0 and looks nothing like the prototype. Thus, I have little faith that one of the last things on my "wish list" - a super-detailed, all-new Legacy PRR H-9 or H-10 will happen anytime soon.
The Legacy GP-9's look nice.
If you were only going to buy 4 or 5 freight cars in the next year, then the prices would not be too huge.
...
That statement supports something I've been saying for a few years now. Namely, the days are pretty much gone where all but the most financially blessed toy train enthusiast can buy everything they like in a given catalog. So instead of one person buying 20 freight cars, Lionel is OK with 5 people buying 4 freight cars... or even 10 people buying 2 cars. But is the market growing sufficiently to support that kind of thinking in the long run??? 
I keep hearing O-Gauge is flat, and market demographics would suggest that the folks with really deep pockets are a shrinking slice of the pie. But you'd never know that with the price-creep of the newly catalog'd products over the past few years.
David
I like the Space Boxcars. I thought I read an alternative for the Powerhouse 180 was coming. I am a little disappointed to see nothing about it in the catalog.
Nothing of interest to me, personally. I notice that Lionel's made-in-USA "6464 sized" boxcars now list for $85. Wow.
Yeah, who doesn't love an $85 ($64 at Nassau) boxcar?! At that price the design your car guy should get a cut!
Jeff Davis
I made a few pricing observations on the "start your clocks" thread. 
Overall, I thought it was a great catalog... lots of product across a broad spectrum of interests. Lots to be happy about.
The only other comment I'll make regarding pricing is this... For some items like the SD60E's special paint-schemes, folks (and I include myself in this group) will likely pre-order the models they really want to purchase.
For everything else, I think the newer items are now priced at a point where an increasing number of folks will just sit out the pre-order commitment and wait for the 15%-20% sales when dealers have product (i.e., "extra" BTO items) already sitting in inventory. If that means some items don't get produced because of low pre-order volumes, then so be it. None of this stuff falls into the "must have" category. None of it. And the new prices for items like the E7 AA sets, Heislers, and FEF's are perfect examples of items priced above any reasonable sense of "value" -- especially when compared to the price discounts dealers need to offer in an effort to move product out of their existing inventory.
David
It's a shiny Catalog.
Well there is allot to go through this catalog. I applaud the new cabeese with and w/o smoke.
The FEF's are a fine addition but I'm not on the market, have the old release.
What I will be getting is some of the scale wig wags crossing signals and maybe a caboose.
I fell off my chair on the E7 pricing... 1000.00 for a diesel, pffffft. No thanks.
I feel there are still allot of centipedes out there that need a home for that price.
Geese, that's half a Vision Line Big Boy, which are still available.
I am still confused about the 18 in Aluminum cars available in the catalog. They are still making them? Or is everything going to 21 inch?
But in all honesty the Bang for the buck is this beauty right here
Although I found quite a bit of rolling stock that interested me, the thing that struck me most was that the presentation of the catalog seems to have significantly improved. I particularly liked the "World of".. themed pages towards the center that brought together related products for a closeup rather than overloading with paint scheme variants - brought home the thought of modeling far more than the other pages.
...I think the newer items are now priced at a point where an increasing number of folks will just sit out the pre-order commitment and wait for the 15%-20% sales when dealers have product (i.e., "extra" BTO items) already sitting in inventory.
David
I absolutely agree. There is nothing in this catalog I can't live without; there will be no pre-orders for me. I'm not a high rail/scale guy. There are a few traditional boxcars I like, but I will wait and get them down the road...if ever. I am finding more and more that I get a lot more enjoyment from my hobby dollars if they are spent on hobbies/interests other than trains. To paraphrase a great president...I am not leaving the hobby, the hobby is leaving me.
Jeff Davis
I'm probably in for the Great Northern E7 A-A set. Where are the passenger cars?
Notes to Lionel:
1. The nose GN logo (round "Rocky" herald) is missing.
2. Please get the colors right. The GP7s and GP9s had too much red in the orange. I can get you help from GNRHS if you need it.
3. Please get steam generator roof details right. Catalog correctly shows two steam generator intakes and exhausts. As built, my CB&Q E9 has only one, which was wrong.
For everything else, I think the newer items are now priced at a point where an increasing number of folks will just sit out the pre-order commitment and wait for the 15%-20% sales when dealers have product (i.e., "extra" BTO items) already sitting in inventory. If that means some items don't get produced because of low pre-order volumes, then so be it. None of this stuff falls into the "must have" category. None of it. And the new prices for items like the E7 AA sets, Heislers, and FEF's are perfect examples of items priced above any reasonable sense of "value" -- especially when compared to the price discounts dealers need to offer in an effort to move product out of their existing inventory.
David
Wait, wait.... there are "Extra" BTO items to be had!?!?! That's not how it was supposed to work! We had to pre-order it to make sure we got it (assuming it got made). 
As to prices in general, it's a long path that got us here. Over the last 20 years or so it started with some steamers breaking the $1k mark, then the JLC steamers at $1800, then the most recent Vision Line Big Boy ($2700 list?, ~ $2k street).
At each of these points, the opportunity for the community as a whole to say "no" existed. But none of these items were cancelled. Each time an item that is priced higher sells, it gives the OK for the next items (even lower in the product hierarchy) to have higher prices.
The diesels are not a new thing either. In 1996-97 or so there were the GE and SP (non-scale) Dash-9 engines(18226 and 18228). List price on these things was I think $600. Also the Soo Lines SD-60 (18232, I think) was in this $700 range.
Back to the original topic.
I like:
That's the things that stuck in my mind after the first pass through Charlie's list. (At the moment, I refuse to go to that disaster the Lionel site became last week)
-Dave
But in all honesty the Bang for the buck is this beauty right here
It's an impressive catalog, for sure. The Chessie GP9 looks beautiful and would be an instant purchase if it were conventional and half the price. Would like to get the eight-door Chessie box and the Chessie autorack, but both the curve radius and cost are prohibitive.
Sure would like to see some new O27 offerings, but their absence tells me they must not be good sellers these days. Menards and eBay will be getting my train dollars again, but from the looks of it, there's a lot of options for others--and that's good.
Nice to see "the J" in there. Next year maybe a switcher!!
I am still confused about the 18 in Aluminum cars available in the catalog. They are still making them? Or is everything going to 21 inch?
...
Lionel certainly hasn't helped any. The latest shipping schedule still has some of the CANCELLED 18" aluminum cars listed for delivery in early 2016!!! 
So even Lionel doesn't know exactly what they're getting from China either. Lots of mis-information out there.
SUPPOSEDLY... a bunch of the 18" aluminum cars were cancelled when Lionel announced the new 21" ABS passenger cars. I had the Texas Special 18" aluminum cars on order with Charlie Ro, and Charlie sent a memo in the mail (USPS mail) indicating Lionel had cancelled those, and gave me the option to order the new Texas Special 21" cars. There were a half dozen or so 18" roadnames that were CANCELLED at the same time.
BUT Lionel did keep 4 roadnames as the last of their 18" aluminum production runs. Those were catalog'd in 2015 Vol 1 and also reappear in Vol 2 as well. Word on the street is these will be the last of Lionel's 18" aluminum passenger cars... and perhaps the last of Lionel aluminum production of all sizes period. Whether or not we'll ever see them is anyone's best guess.
David
Some nice stuff in there, but the prices are really getting up there. 650 for a diesel? Yes, I know 550 or so street price, but still - and you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture. The rolling stock prices, as others have said - $80 for a 9700 style boxcar ( even figure 65 for street price) is insane.....
This is getting be a real "rich man's sport." Not hard to understand why fewer and fewer people are entering O gauge. I was also looking at prices on the baby Madison cars for a Holiday layout - works out to $90 per car! Hard to believe.
I agree that $650 for a diesel is hitting the stratosphere, and the statement that "you have no idea what it will look like compared to the catalog picture" hit home. I might be interested in the Rio Grande GP-9, but after Lionel's extremely disappointing fiasco (to me) with their RG GP35s, where the catalog picture showed the correct orange paint and the production models had a grossly wrong dark red-orange, this GP-9 is a definite wait-and-see.
Like the FEF's but at $1699 msrp and the E7's at $1000.00, $650 for a diesel, who are they kidding? My days of Pre ordering is over. Even the street prices are too high IMO.
Isn't it interesting that many of the BTO items in this latest catalog have next to no detail descriptions listed??? A picture or two... a small blurb about "new tooling"... and maybe a spec for overall length and minimum radius. That's it!!! 
I guess we just gotta believe!!!
David
I found the new TOFC cars to be interesting because it seems that some more Weaver tooling has found a new owner.
These Lionel versions would have been planned long before Weaver's demise. I suspect the catalog even went to the printer well before Weaver's announcement.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
