Lionel 2023 Vol. 2 Catalog M1s

@Dave Olson

https://ogrforum.com/...6#176835426653251306

This might help...I'm wondering if the catalog is an older illustration?

The thing I'm not a fan of on the scale engines are the way oversized smokebox front hinges on so many of the engines.  I've taken them off and put some PSC hinges in their place.  I'm not really sure what use they have since you can't really do a whole lot when the door is open?? 

@ogauge1217 posted:

I saw that all M1s displayed were presented with feedwater heaters behind the stack - something the real M1s did not have, but were present on the latter M1a and M1b variants. Hopefully Lionel notices this issue. What do you all think?

You are correct, I did not notice this in our earlier discussions.  Now that you brought it up it is really noticeable.

An earlier comment stated they used an M1b mold, which would have originally been MTH's.  The pictures in the catalog didn't show the clean out plugs on the firebox so I thought maybe they were mistaken but the feedwater heater indicates they may have been correct.  Since Lionel says this is "all new product" it looks like it is MTH's mold which would have a couple of errors for an M1.  Wonder if it has the two air compressors on the left side instead of the single one on the M1?

Assuming this is MTH's M1b mold, to make it an M1 Lionel would need to:  remove the feedwater heater, redesign the left side to have only one compressor, remove the clean out plugs, and have inside pipes.

And if they do all of that plus these two items to one of the short tender models, I would buy it:  Add footboard pilots and use the post WWII headlight/generator placement.

As Larry mentioned, it could be an old illustration of their M1a which would still have many of the same issues.

Looks like I am not buying any engine again this year.

@Larry Mullen posted:

...I'm wondering if the catalog is an older illustration?

This was my first thought while reading the thread. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of thing has happened.

@CAPPilot posted:

You are correct, I did not notice this in our earlier discussions.  Now that you brought it up it is really noticeable.

An earlier comment stated they used an M1b mold, which would have originally been MTH's.  The pictures in the catalog didn't show the clean out plugs on the firebox so I thought maybe they were mistaken but the feedwater heater indicates they may have been correct.  Since Lionel says this is "all new product" it looks like it is MTH's mold which would have a couple of errors for an M1.  Wonder if it has the two air compressors on the left side instead of the single one on the M1?

Assuming this is MTH's M1b mold, to make it an M1 Lionel would need to:  remove the feedwater heater, redesign the left side to have only one compressor, remove the clean out plugs, and have inside pipes.

And if they do all of that plus these two items to one of the short tender models, I would buy it:  Add footboard pilots and use the post WWII headlight/generator placement.

As Larry mentioned, it could be an old illustration of their M1a which would still have many of the same issues.

Looks like I am not buying any engine again this year.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it's MTH's mold.  Lionel made the M1a in 2003, I think, and the M1b in 2007ish??  Those two boilers/castings look identical to one another.  I doubt Lionel could have used an MTH mold in 2007.  If I'm wrong, I'm all but positive that someone from this group will let me know. 

I misspoke in the other thread. The tooling for the M1 is based on our existing M1a, not M1b.

No feedwater heaters. These are going to be very close to the M1 prototype photos we used. Each road number will have different detailings.

Just picking a random sku, here's Pennsy 6871:

Note the shorter pilot and front truck. We made the truck as short as we could accommodate, but it does require some extra length due to 3-Rail flanges and tight curves.

@Dave Olson posted:

No feedwater heaters. These are going to be very close to the M1 prototype photos we used. Each road number will have different detailings.

Nice. Thanks for providing the 3D renderings as well, cool to see.

Are the M1s all weathered-looking, or is that just how they appear in the online catalog? Not that weathering is a bad thing.

No weathering aside from some having blackened siderods vs polished.

What about the color, army green again?

Lets see,

- No feedwater heater

- Only one compressor

- No clean out plugs.

Looks like an M1 to me.

One final wish:  If Lionel would use the engine in the Catalog #2431440 (Cab #6918 - post WWII headlight and footboards) with the short tender, I would buy it for my late 40s/50s layout.

@CAPPilot posted:

Lets see,

- No feedwater heater

- Only one compressor

Is there a second air compressor on the Engineer's side?

- No clean out plugs.

No wash-out plugs? How would they have done a proper boiler wash then? Something is wrong there.

Looks like an M1 to me.

One final wish:  If Lionel would use the engine in the Catalog #2431440 (Cab #6918 - post WWII headlight and footboards) with the short tender, I would buy it for my late 40s/50s layout.

@Hot Water posted:

The 201 M1 engines had one compressor, the 100 M1a engines built 4 years later had a second compressor added next to the first one, resulting in both on the left.

The “clean outs” were for water circulars added as part of the 1a horsepower upgrade to 1b. These were noticeable along the firebox side.  Only the 38 M1b engines had them.

Here is my MTH M1b. The three circular clean outs are at an angle in front of the cab.

The Lionel renderings look great for the new M1.  A suggestion - provide interchangeable pilots so the buyer could decide between footboards, slats, or a cast pilot.  M1s with short tenders and modernized front ends ran into the 50s on the Buffalo branch.  That’s the look that would interest me.  It was not uncommon for Pennsy engines to have partial front end treatments immediately following WW2.  So slat or footboard pilots with the modernized headlight/generator location or traditional headlight/ generator locations with a cast pilot would all be prototypical.  

I just went through all my downloaded photos and photos in Staufer's books of the M1.  Here are the configurations:

- Modernized headlight/generator position, footboard pilot, short tender

- Modernized headlight/generator position, slotted pilot, short tender

- Modernized headlight/generator position, solid pilot, long tender

- Modernized headlight/generator position, slotted pilot, long tender

- Original headlight/generator position, footboard pilot, short tender w/doghouse

- Original headlight/generator position, slotted pilot, short tender (looks like w/doghouse)

- Original headlight/generator position, footboard pilot, short tender

- Original headlight/generator position, slotted pilot, short tender

- Original headlight/generator position, slotted pilot, long tender

Anyway, there is photographic evidence of all possible configurations.  Unfortunately, most had no dates.

The pictures of the tenders with the doghouse were interesting.  There was definitely one with the footboard pilot but not clear enough to say the one with the slotted pilot had one.

For the next catalog I would really like to see a version with the modernized headlight/generator position, footboard pilot, and short tender (with or without the doghouse).

I still have to look further in on these. I think the one on the second page just above the 1950's version, with the doghouse on the tender, but forget what wheels are on it. I'll make sure by next weekend what I choose.

Ron thanks for the configuration rundown.  The one you are missing is modernized headlight / generator position, solid pilot, short tender.  Photo evidence in the book “Western NY and Pennsylvania RR” which depicts two different road numbers in that configuration in the early 1950s.  That configuration would capture my interest.  

@Dave Olson posted:

I misspoke in the other thread. The tooling for the M1 is based on our existing M1a, not M1b.

No feedwater heaters. These are going to be very close to the M1 prototype photos we used. Each road number will have different detailings.

Just picking a random sku, here's Pennsy 6871:

Note the shorter pilot and front truck. We made the truck as short as we could accommodate, but it does require some extra length due to 3-Rail flanges and tight curves.

Did the New M1 get cancelled? Not enough orders?

I have one on order.

they are here https://www.lionelstore.com/search?keywords=m1

Any updates on a shipping date ???

A guy on Instagram, that I assume works at one of the Lionel retail stores, is posting videos of them. Should be soon hopefully!

video on facebook of a lionel store employee,  locomotive looks green & tender looks black

can you put a link to the facebook page with the video. I just got an invoice from charles ro for another engine i preordered, and it lists all of my preorders from that catalog, next to the m1 it has a date of 12/10/2024. On the Lionel store if you click on the engines there is no arrival date except the m1 set, it says 10/2/2024.

Thanks all.

Looks like we have to wait on these M1s.

Fingers crossed. The fall is not far off now so I can wait.

@GAN Railroad posted:

can you put a link to the facebook page with the video. I just got an invoice from charles ro for another engine i preordered, and it lists all of my preorders from that catalog, next to the m1 it has a date of 12/10/2024. On the Lionel store if you click on the engines there is no arrival date except the m1 set, it says 10/2/2024.

https://www.facebook.com/share...P46/?mibextid=qi2Omg

https://www.facebook.com/share...xDk/?mibextid=qi2Omg

@tom21pa posted:

https://www.facebook.com/share...P46/?mibextid=qi2Omg

https://www.facebook.com/share...xDk/?mibextid=qi2Omg

OMG.

That green is no good. It should be black.

Thankfully I did not put money down on that pre-order.

Same green as the L1's Mikado's

Going to have to confirm on the color. Thanks for posting.

I believe this DGLE is the same as was put on the I1. All depends on the lighting I think

I think you are right about the lighting, one picture it looks green, another it looks black. My L1 smokebox and boiler looks black, then from the firebox, all the way through the tender it looks green.

I’m excited - 6888 on pre-order - I’m not worried about the color / the L-1 and the I-1 looked exactly the same in cell phone posted pics - in my trainroom they look great 👍🏼 - not sure why that is

Fingers crossed 🤞

I was concerned about the “graphite” color    - that looks good to me

I-1 - depends on lighting / angle etc - in person it’s awesome - my opinion and I’m happy 😊

Thank you

Has anyone seen these yet? Aside from being at the Lionel store I don’t think any dealers have gotten them

Not sure if this is me but - can't find them on Charles Ro website ??? - weird

@dorfj2 posted:

Not sure if this is me but - can't find them on Charles Ro website ??? - weird

I didn’t seen them either, thought it was a little strange they took them off

They should be arriving soon as I believe Mr Muffin's had said that exact phrase. I guess it is just a question of a week or two before the official announcement that they have arrived.

Anything yet ??? - just curious -pics / video posted on Facebook almost a month ago 😳

Is that a normal timeline ???

Yes, I just got the call they are in and mine should ship out today.

OK this is crazy - just got an email from Charles Ro - PRR M1 6888 is in 👍🏼🚂

I received it today. Very pleased with it. Color is fine. Could be a little darker.

No problems, everything works perfect so far.

Got my 6888 today, little disappointed it’s PCM on the pilot markings and not PGH but aside from that everything else is very nice.