Lionel 6-28063 Scale Pennsylvania T1 Legacy Conversion 7/12/20 (video)

Bruk posted:

It’s time for another Legacy conversion. We have this beautiful Scale Pennsylvania T1. This is another locomotive from the MTH Lionel lawsuit. “Lawsuit series” I’m calling it. This once again is another engine we might not see from Lionel anytime soon. It be a surprise if they did, and if they did expect to pay 3k for it...... Ill be using the sound board from the Legacy LionMaster #5511 from about 10 years ago. Little more expensive route but it should be worth it. 

This thread will be dedicated only to the conversion of this Loco to Legacy. Sit back and enjoy for the next coming weeks. I believe I have all the necessary parts to convert it. If not ill be dead in the water till Lionel opens back up again. 

Enjoy! 

Can't wait to see the progress.

Sounds great Bruk!  I have the LM version, it would be sweet to actually have a scale version.

Nice project! Would this engine be a good candidate for a future brass hybrid from Lionel or are the reasons why it hasn't materialized in Legacy form be the same for any version of it?

Update: 

This conversion will be a slow one. The tender will be pretty straight forward. I have chipped away at that first.  But the engine has been a struggle. Due to the way things are lining up, It will require 3d printed parts. Custom Brass parts as you have seen in the past are possible to make, but if I have multiple units coming through for upgrades, I want to save some time and just go with the 3d printed part.

These parts I can draw up on my computer with some ease, but my printer will not be able to print in the required materials for certain items needed. Light holders or board holders I can make at home in PLA or ABS but anything around the smoke units such as a exhaust funnel will have to be done 3rd party in material that I can not print. 

Here is an example of what I have been working on. I was not happy with the smoke volume out of the “stock” smoke unit through the stack. I will not be using the DSMK for this project due to the fact that there is not enough airflow from one fan to vent the smoke properly. I dont think the circuit can support two smoke motors and two resistors. Nothing is official yet, but the concepts are close. (And yes these items line up when the shell is on) 

@Bruk posted:

Update: 

This conversion will be a slow one. The tender will be pretty straight forward. I have chipped away at that first.  But the engine has been a struggle. Due to the way things are lining up, It will require 3d printed parts. Custom Brass parts as you have seen in the past are possible to make, but if I have multiple units coming through for upgrades, I want to save some time and just go with the 3d printed part.

These parts I can draw up on my computer with some ease, but my printer will not be able to print in the required materials for certain items needed. Light holders or board holders I can make at home in PLA or ABS but anything around the smoke units such as a exhaust funnel will have to be done 3rd party in material that I can’t not print. 

Here is an example of what I have been working on. I was not happy with the smoke volume out of the “stock” smoke unit through the stack. I will not be using the DSMK for this project due to the fact that there is not enough airflow from one fan to vent the smoke properly. I dont think the circuit can support two smoke motors and two resistors. Nothing is official yet, but the concepts are close. (And yes these items line up when the shell is on) 

Looks great Bruk.

This sounds almost like you are building the real deal from the ground up Bruk. Just like rebuilding a transmission on a car, lots of very dirty work, even if you know what you are doing.

FYI you can get small diameter aluminum tubing, 1/8"-5/8" OD that you can bend by hand without a tubing bender. If it would work it would be less expensive than 3D printing the parts.

https://www.mcmaster.com/flexi...end-aluminum-tubing/

Pete

@Bruk posted:

Update: 

This conversion will be a slow one. The tender will be pretty straight forward. I have chipped away at that first.  But the engine has been a struggle. Due to the way things are lining up, It will require 3d printed parts. Custom Brass parts as you have seen in the past are possible to make, but if I have multiple units coming through for upgrades, I want to save some time and just go with the 3d printed part.

These parts I can draw up on my computer with some ease, but my printer will not be able to print in the required materials for certain items needed. Light holders or board holders I can make at home in PLA or ABS but anything around the smoke units such as a exhaust funnel will have to be done 3rd party in material that I can’t not print. 

Here is an example of what I have been working on. I was not happy with the smoke volume out of the “stock” smoke unit through the stack. I will not be using the DSMK for this project due to the fact that there is not enough airflow from one fan to vent the smoke properly. I dont think the circuit can support two smoke motors and two resistors. Nothing is official yet, but the concepts are close. (And yes these items line up when the shell is on) 

If you are going to be using the older style modular sound boards for this engine, are you then going to have use the older motor driver boards?

Excellent work. Looking forward to seeing the end result.

The sound serial communication from the RCMC is different than the R4LC.  Jon Z. is really the guy to ask, but from my recent conversation with him, I think there may be a disconnect or two between the older modular board and what the RCMC says to the RS board.  I know that trying to drive the new Legacy RS-Lite boards with a Legacy R4LC is a no-go, that's why I mention it.  You get a few functions, but many sound effects aren't happening without having the RCMC drive the serial data to the RS-Lite board.

Higher level can drive older Railsounds but not the other way around. From experience an RCMC can drive RS4 and above, maybe even RS2 or 2.5 but have never tried those last two.

Pete

 Curious how the RS4 recognizes the 9-bit code.  Obviously, this must be in TMCC mode, if you attempt to run in Legacy I'd think it would be a problem.

In the past if its IR to IR it should not be a problem using a RCMC with the older Legacy Railsounds. There is always issues if you try and hard wire the serial data lines as we all know.

In fact the the 700e Hudson is equipped with an RCMC board and this same Legacy RS6 board set up from the Vision Steam LM T1. Same idea I am using. 

@Norton posted:

FYI you can get small diameter aluminum tubing, 1/8"-5/8" OD that you can bend by hand without a tubing bender. If it would work it would be less expensive than 3D printing the parts.

https://www.mcmaster.com/flexi...end-aluminum-tubing/

Pete

I have seen this stuff before and used it. its great stuff. But my problems are that I already have 3 people interested in having this conversion done to their T1's. I need a better process for my end product that can be consistent every time. So far on my list to be able to convert 6 locos it will cost me $55 dollars for all the parts from Shapeways. (subject to change)

I just wish I had the track to operate my 6-28063. It sits on my mantle, more of a statue than a locomotive. 😕

Man I always enjoy your posts.  I always wish I could have gone to the Lionel training when offered but watching and learning from you is the next best thing.  Lots of ingenuity going on.

@CoolHand posted:

I just wish I had the track to operate my 6-28063. It sits on my mantle, more of a statue than a locomotive. 😕

I have a MTH S1 and even though I had 0-72 curves, it still couldn’t run. It became a display engine as well. 

@MartyE posted:

Man I always enjoy your posts.  I always wish I could have gone to the Lionel training when offered but watching and learning from you is the next best thing.  Lots of ingenuity going on.

Thanks, I wish I could have gone to the training too. 

Bruk, you've done pretty well without the training!

I agree with John. My uncle used to say if I show you once, I shouldn't have to show you again. When I was much younger, it would be twice. The older I got, I only needed to be showed once. Of course there were few occasions where he wasn't completely clear, and that became a mess.

Bruk, the way you show is the best detailing possible probably in just about everyone's opinion. I know I wouldn't be worth a you know what because I'm sure I would crush, split, mar and destroy something. It's just best for me to pull out my wallet and let the pros handle stuff like this.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk, you've done pretty well without the training!

As have you John. 

Pete

Update: 

More 3d Printed Parts: 

-Main Smoke Unit Funnel and “Bracket”

-LED Holder for the Number board and Headlights.

I attached a video of the Main Smoke unit. A quick test before the PLA funnel starts to melt to show the improved smoke output. 

I’m working on the Whistle Steam Smoke unit currently. 

There are lots of test fitting, re-measuring and reprinting, restarting way the part will fit best .... all very time consuming but will make my life easier in the end. 

@Bruk posted:

Update: 

More 3d Printed Parts: 

-Main Smoke Unit Funnel and “Bracket”

-LED Holder for the Number board and Headlights.

I attached a video of the Main Smoke unit. A quick test before the PLA funnel starts to melt to show the improved smoke output. 

I’m working on the Whistle Steam Smoke unit currently. 

There are lots of test fitting, re-measuring and reprinting, restarting way the part will fit best .... all very time consuming but will make my life easier in the end. 

Looks great. I don't know much about 3d printing, so correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there types of printing material that are more heat resistant?

@Sid's Trains posted:

Looks great. I don't know much about 3d printing, so correct me if I'm wrong, isn't there types of printing material that are more heat resistant?

There is, but my printer is not capable of doing that. So I’m just test fitting everything before I have it professionally printed in the proper materials instead of me buy a whole new printer. 

Update:

I have been slowly chipping away at this project. I’m not in any hurry. I’m waiting for my Shapeways prints to show up later this week. Hopefully those fit. I got the tender all wired up. The locomotive is mostly wired up less the lighting. I am still working on how to mount those properly. Everything functions between the engine and tender, that means full Legacy control. Some of you doubted that the older generation of Legacy electronics wouldn't work, but it does via IR. So here is proof that it does. I had a defective speed encoder so the locomotive took off like a rocket first time around. Thankfully John here was able to supply me with a replacement and everything worked as it should. Thanks again John!

More to come this week. 

@Bruk posted:

Update:

I have been slowly chipping away at this project. I’m not in any hurry. I’m waiting for my Shapeways prints to show up later this week. Hopefully those fit. I got the tender all wired up. The locomotive is mostly wired up less the lighting. I am still working on how to mount those properly. Everything functions between the engine and tender, that means full Legacy control. Some of you doubted that the older generation of Legacy electronics wouldn't work, but it does via IR. So here is proof that it does. I had a defective speed encoder so the locomotive took off like a rocket first time around. Thankfully John here was able to supply me with a replacement and everything worked as it should. Thanks again John!

More to come this week. 

Looks great as always Bruk👍

Bruk, my experience has been that the older Legacy RS 5.5 and RS 6.0 boards work with the RCMC, but the new RS-Lite boards don't work properly with the R4LC.  You lose commands in the process.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Bruk, my experience has been that the older Legacy RS 5.5 and RS 6.0 boards work with the RCMC, but the new RS-Lite boards don't work properly with the R4LC.  You lose commands in the process.

It some point I will have to take a look at this. I would think I have experimented with that before. Ill have to look at that sooner than later. 

Jon Z. explained to me that the issue is they actually made the RS-Lite a little less smart, so stuff like the bell is handled by the RCMC, and not like the old TMCC where the bell starts and keeps ringing in the sound card until you stop it.  The Legacy RS-Lite just does a single operation when you command it, if you want the bell to keep ringing, you keep sending ring commands to the sound board.  This was to concentrate all the "smarts" in one place, the RCMC.  That way things don't tend to get out of sync.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jon Z. explained to me that the issue is they actually made the RS-Lite a little less smart, so stuff like the bell is handled by the RCMC, and not like the old TMCC where the bell starts and keeps ringing in the sound card until you stop it.  The Legacy RS-Lite just does a single operation when you command it, if you want the bell to keep ringing, you keep sending ring commands to the sound board.  This was to concentrate all the "smarts" in one place, the RCMC.  That way things don't tend to get out of sync.

I wish John Z would write a book 

I mentioned that to him recently.   He does have a vast storehouse of knowledge about the newer Legacy stuff, that would be a book that I'd buy in a heartbeat.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I mentioned that to him recently.   He does have a vast storehouse of knowledge about the newer Legacy stuff, that would be a book that I'd buy in a heartbeat.

Id buy it and fund him to write it 😂

This is a wonderful project Bruk, thanks so much for sharing the details with us!

Update:

3D printed parts are in and fitment couldn't be any better! I am very happy with that. I have attached a video. 

I got all the parts needed and installed. I have wrapped up the remaining wiring for the lighting in the loco which include; upper and lower headlights, marker lights, number boards, and cab lights. The Number boards are being powered off the track power and everything else is driven by the RCMC board.

On my T1 model I used (Warm White) 3528 SMDs for the number boards and headlights. For customer upgrades I will be using 3mm MTH bright white LEDs for the lighting. I also added green markers/lens instead of the red ones. I used green 0603 SMD's to light them. The original way they where lit was with the number boards. I will most likely not offer this as an option for future customer conversions due to the delicacy of installing them. I had to use a 15k resistor on top of the RCMC board output to dim them down enough to not be blinding bright. 

I also spruced up the cab and painted a few items on the back head and installed a single 0603 LED for the cab lighting. 

@Bruk posted:

Update:

3D printed parts are in and fitment couldn't be any better! I am very happy with that. I have attached a video. 

I got all the parts needed and installed. I have wrapped up the remaining wiring for the lighting in the loco which include; upper and lower headlights, marker lights, number boards, and cab lights. The Number boards are being powered off the track power and everything else is driven by the RCMC board.

On my T1 model I used (Warm White) 3528 SMDs for the number boards and headlights. For customer upgrades I will be using 3mm MTH bright white LEDs for the lighting. I also added green markers/lens instead of the red ones. I used green 0603 SMD's to light them. The original way they where lit was with the number boards. I will most likely not offer this as an option for future customer conversions due to the delicacy of installing them. I had to use a 15k resistor on top of the RCMC board output to dim them down enough to not be blinding bright. 

I also spruced up the cab and painted a few items on the back head and installed a single 0603 LED for the cab lighting. 

That looks amazing Bruk. Love the 3D printed parts and the led work. Looks great and sounds great as well. Amazing work as always. 

@Bruk posted:

Id buy it and fund him to write it 😂

I like the funding part!

jon z

Really nice work Bruk!

@SantaFeFan posted:

Really nice work Bruk!

Thank you! 

That's amazing Bruk, the 3D parts are the icing on the cake, they work great!  Did you do the design work on those?  Who printed them, and what material are they made from?

I see Jon took you up on the funding offer.

I'm guessing you've already done a test fit of the boiler shell, right?