HI
Can any body tell me more about this steam engine. Is there a better Polar Express engine out there or this a good engine to run on a layout. Comment is invited.
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You have to use a later version to get the larger motor and improved drive gear. The shell has to come off to eyeball the motor if you are buying it out of the set box. Otherwise, you can tell early set boxes from later 6-31960.
The puffer smoke unit needs modification to get good smoke at decent running speeds. (5V-7V AC)
The add-on trainsounds tender is just ok.
It's a good puller and will run a long time.
Moonman posted:You have to use a later version to get the larger motor and improved drive gear. The shell has to come off to eyeball the motor if you are buying it out of the set box. Otherwise, you can tell early set boxes from later 6-31960.
The puffer smoke unit needs modification to get good smoke at decent running speeds. (5V-7V AC)
The add-on trainsounds tender is just ok.
It's a good puller and will run a long time.
What do you look for when 'eyeballing' the motor to note the difference. What marks an 'early set box?'
I believe my set came from a second run of the set, I got it in the Spring of 2005.
Is the better Polar Express engine the one that was for separate sale with whistle steam? The number was 6-18754.
The 6-18754 has the later Series-II large motor.
Thank you one all I for your replies. So I will pass on the 6-28649 and look for 6-18754.
It depends on when it was made. The 6-28649 (6208649001) POLAR EXPRESS BERKSHIRE JR #1225 LOCO lists both the Series I and Series II motors.
Attachments
Thank you, GRJ.
Charly,
The packaging varied. If you Google the set number and look at the images you will see the different box art and handles from the first two. The Flat boxes with the windows and standard Lionel size now are the newest. I'll look at the older 2 and see if I can remember how to tell.
nvocc5 posted:Thank you one all I for your replies. So I will pass on the 6-28649 and look for 6-18754.
Kris, if you have to buy sight unseen, perhaps. The conventional with the Mabuchi motor is good. The 6-18754 is sort of a treasure. You'll pay up if you find one.
rrvics posted:Is the better Polar Express engine the one that was for separate sale with whistle steam? The number was 6-18754.
Vic,
That's the really nice one, cast tender, better railsounds and speaker, light cab and crew. They always held their price and not a lot around.
I converted one to command, cruise control, fan driven smoke (with a Super-Chuffer of course), and RailSounds 5. I installed a remote controlled sound module in a baggage car to play the PE specific sounds.
This what I love about this forum it is like the consumer reports for O gauge trains. I will have to ask the seller to send me picture to find out which motor it has. I just want this run around the Christmas tree and a few laps on the new permanent layout that I plan on building. Quick question for the repair gurus, how hard is it to replace the 6208616103 with the 6208616100 MABUCHI Motor?
nvocc5 posted:This what I love about this forum it is like the consumer reports for O gauge trains. I will have to ask the seller to send me picture to find out which motor it has. I just want this run around the Christmas tree and a few laps on the new permanent layout that I plan on building. Quick question for the repair gurus, how hard is it to replace the 6208616103 with the 6208616100 MABUCHI Motor?
One would also need a drive wheel set with axle and gear to match the motor gear. They set in axle bearings in the frame and have to be quartered properly with the side rods when replaced.
I am not sure if the control board is different to account for the power draw.
It would be easier to run what you get and just replace the original motor and or wheel set when needed. I have only seen gear wear posted here on the forum. That could have been from lack of grease and running it on a display for untold hours.
I (we, I assume) did not want to imply that the early motor is inadequate. Lionel made a change and it was an improvement.
The motor mount is different, so I don't see that replacement working.
Thanks for the replies. The sell does not want to open up the engine to show me the motor, so I will bid according or just pass this one by.
Remember, you can't change the motor to the larger one, so you're stuck with what you get here. 
John, thanks for fitment detail on the motor mounts. I was thinking back to Rogerpete's experience with these and the original motor.
At some point, I'm going to try to fit a larger motor to the Hogwarts Express locomotive, that should be an interesting experiment. I don't anticipate it being easy, but I have an "experimental" locomotive to do the initial tests with.
I just bought a scale PE so anybody want to buy my 027 version with ERR TMCC and Railsounds with 8 cars
gunrunnerjohn posted:I converted one to command, cruise control, fan driven smoke (with a Super-Chuffer of course), and RailSounds 5. I installed a remote controlled sound module in a baggage car to play the PE specific sounds.
Understanding this post is fairly ancient, I was wondering if you could elaborate on what was needed to do this conversion for 6-18754. Is it off-the shelf ERR stuff? I don't really have much interest in the cruise control but the TMCC capability (must maintain the steam whistle!) and Super Chuffer would be great upgrades. New to this game so please bear with me, thanks.
Doug Kinsman posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:I converted one to command, cruise control, fan driven smoke (with a Super-Chuffer of course), and RailSounds 5. I installed a remote controlled sound module in a baggage car to play the PE specific sounds.
Understanding this post is fairly ancient, I was wondering if you could elaborate on what was needed to do this conversion for 6-18754. Is it off-the shelf ERR stuff? I don't really have much interest in the cruise control but the TMCC capability (must maintain the steam whistle!) and Super Chuffer would be great upgrades. New to this game so please bear with me, thanks.
Doug,
you have one of the treasures of the Polar Express line. I passed on one in 2012 and regret it. great semi-scale engine. The ERR stuff and the Super Chuffer would not be difficult to install following the instructions.
The part that I would I see as creative or a little complicated, would be to create a tether from the tender to engine and mount everything in the tender, like TMCC/legacy steamers. However, there is plenty of space in the engine, but the sound/speaker parts are in the tender.
Sending it to gunrunnerjohn would certainly have a good result. He may be busy moving now. new house and all of that life change stuff.
Send John an email directly. It is in his profile.
I got everything in the tender. I did not put in a fan driven smoke unit or super chuffer but it works really well. I have photos of the inside of the tender somewhere.
Matt Makens posted:I got everything in the tender. I did not put in a fan driven smoke unit or super chuffer but it works really well. I have photos of the inside of the tender somewhere.
Thanks guys. If you have the ERR items I need that would be helpful (or I will just call them). If you grab those photos and post them here that would be excellent (and also helpful for anyone else trying to do the same).
Anyone know where I can find a replacement for the whistle steam fan? It just crapped out on me and that is the one feature I can't live without. The Lionel Parts list says "Unavailable" for the smoke unit, but I really just need the fan for the whistle. Thanks
Doug Kinsman posted:Anyone know where I can find a replacement for the whistle steam fan? It just crapped out on me and that is the one feature I can't live without. The Lionel Parts list says "Unavailable" for the smoke unit, but I really just need the fan for the whistle. Thanks
You may have to find a suitable motor. The impeller is ok. or it could be the fan control pcb. Also, not available.
Do some testing - try a battery jumpered to the fan leads. Disconnect at the connector and connect the battery to the motor terminals. if it works its the board. If it doesn't, it's the motor.
Using a number from the motor a replacement could be sourced. if it's the board, I don't know.
This will take some creativity to get working again. Retrofit a modern fan if it is the fan.
One long shot for parts would Trainz service department.
That motor looks like a standard smoke motor, I'd consider trying either the Lionel or MTH smoke motor.
So I brought the engine into the local hobby shop and sure enough they test it on some display track and the **** thing is blowing the steam whistle like a champ. I have to wonder if its an intermittent issue or something about the way I am supplying power (CW80 sending DC offsets to trigger).
On another note, I left the engine with the hobby shop and they are putting a command board in it. Looks like enough real estate in the tender to make it happen with a tether as others have mentioned. Only thing I would have missed is the need to isolate the tender shell from the frame to avoid shorting out the antenna.
Doug Kinsman posted:So I brought the engine into the local hobby shop and sure enough they test it on some display track and the **** thing is blowing the steam whistle like a champ. I have to wonder if its an intermittent issue or something about the way I am supplying power (CW80 sending DC offsets to trigger).
On another note, I left the engine with the hobby shop and they are putting a command board in it. Looks like enough real estate in the tender to make it happen with a tether as others have mentioned. Only thing I would have missed is the need to isolate the tender shell from the frame to avoid shorting out the antenna.
Doug, the whistle steam will still work with the new command board? Did they tell you how you'll trigger the steam whistle effect in command mode? By command board, do you mean tmcc or dcs? Have they told you which board they'll be using? Are you having them install speed control and a new sound board too?
Nice that you have a shop that does that work.
What transformer was used at the shop?
ogaugeguy posted:Doug Kinsman posted:So I brought the engine into the local hobby shop and sure enough they test it on some display track and the **** thing is blowing the steam whistle like a champ. I have to wonder if its an intermittent issue or something about the way I am supplying power (CW80 sending DC offsets to trigger).
On another note, I left the engine with the hobby shop and they are putting a command board in it. Looks like enough real estate in the tender to make it happen with a tether as others have mentioned. Only thing I would have missed is the need to isolate the tender shell from the frame to avoid shorting out the antenna.
Doug, the whistle steam will still work with the new command board? Did they tell you how you'll trigger the steam whistle effect in command mode? By command board, do you mean tmcc or dcs? Have they told you which board they'll be using? Are you having them install speed control and a new sound board too?
The command board (TMCC, ERR DC commander) will only control motion. The Railsounds and whistle will still rely on DC offsets to be activated. The sound board will remain the same and no cruise control. To me the only downside of conventional operation is the motion of the engine with the stop/start/neutral sequence and the coarse speed control. Being able to keep the track at constant voltage will also help with smoke production because right now I can't load that engine down enough to keep the track voltage high enough to get good smoke while in motion.
Moonman posted:Nice that you have a shop that does that work.
What transformer was used at the shop?
It was some older model that I didn't recognize. I will check when I pick up the engine. I had to ask around quite a bit to find this guy/shop but after speaking with him it seems like he really knows his stuff. We shall see but I am optimistic which is rare for an engineer.
Doug Kinsman posted:Moonman posted:Nice that you have a shop that does that work.
What transformer was used at the shop?
It was some older model that I didn't recognize. I will check when I pick up the engine. I had to ask around quite a bit to find this guy/shop but after speaking with him it seems like he really knows his stuff. We shall see but I am optimistic which is rare for an engineer.
It's difficult to lay blame on the CW-80 with only that event. If it was an intermittent issue with a loose wire or something, that will be remedied during the upgrade process. You may want to add a smoke unit refresh, new wicking and resistor check, to the job.
Moonman posted:Doug Kinsman posted:Moonman posted:Nice that you have a shop that does that work.
What transformer was used at the shop?
It was some older model that I didn't recognize. I will check when I pick up the engine. I had to ask around quite a bit to find this guy/shop but after speaking with him it seems like he really knows his stuff. We shall see but I am optimistic which is rare for an engineer.
It's difficult to lay blame on the CW-80 with only that event. If it was an intermittent issue with a loose wire or something, that will be remedied during the upgrade process. You may want to add a smoke unit refresh, new wicking and resistor check, to the job.
Yes, I agree especially considering the CW80 was triggering it before without issue. The smoke production is actually really good, just an intermittent issue with the fan for the whistle as far as I can tell.
Doug Kinsman posted:ogaugeguy posted:Doug Kinsman posted:So I brought the engine into the local hobby shop and sure enough they test it on some display track and the **** thing is blowing the steam whistle like a champ. I have to wonder if its an intermittent issue or something about the way I am supplying power (CW80 sending DC offsets to trigger).
On another note, I left the engine with the hobby shop and they are putting a command board in it. Looks like enough real estate in the tender to make it happen with a tether as others have mentioned. Only thing I would have missed is the need to isolate the tender shell from the frame to avoid shorting out the antenna.
Doug, the whistle steam will still work with the new command board? Did they tell you how you'll trigger the steam whistle effect in command mode? By command board, do you mean tmcc or dcs? Have they told you which board they'll be using? Are you having them install speed control and a new sound board too?
The command board (TMCC, ERR DC commander) will only control motion. The Railsounds and whistle will still rely on DC offsets to be activated. The sound board will remain the same and no cruise control. To me the only downside of conventional operation is the motion of the engine with the stop/start/neutral sequence and the coarse speed control. Being able to keep the track at constant voltage will also help with smoke production because right now I can't load that engine down enough to keep the track voltage high enough to get good smoke while in motion.
"Being able to keep the track at constant voltage will also help with smoke production because right now I can't load that engine down enough to keep the track voltage high enough to get good smoke while in motion."
I had discussed a voltage dropper solution to the motor with my first PE(conventional) for this very reason. Smoke was good at 7 volts, but the speed was ludicrous. decided against it. I was happy when the LionChief version was delivered. F-N-R cycling was not for me.
If you want to tinker with getting the whistle steam to work in command mode, take a look at the ERR Sound Converter. It decodes the TMCC serial data and has outputs for the whistle and bell. With a little support circuitry and a couple of hacks, you can have a command controlled whistle smoke.
gunrunnerjohn posted:If you want to tinker with getting the whistle steam to work in command mode, take a look at the ERR Sound Converter. It decodes the TMCC serial data and has outputs for the whistle and bell. With a little support circuitry and a couple of hacks, you can have a command controlled whistle smoke.
Hmm, I will have to keep that in mind. Is there a way to send DC offsets to the track via a power master? If that is the case I could control the whistle steam and bell with a CAB1 telling the power master to send the same DC offsets as my CW 80.
I’ll just mention here that my Berkshire is the #6-28649 version. Apart from the tender sounds, which were partly dismantled and possibly damaged by a PO, it’s a nice piece.
Runs smoothly, pulls well, stable on the long, loose-lay straights at a recent club running day (which some quite up-market engines weren’t...) body detail and finish were favourably remarked on.
It hadn’t occurred to me that it was a semi-Scale engine, although seeing it next to the K Line Hudson, it is obvious - I suppose I’m just used to seeing OO Scale British outline next to HO scale, US outline stock, and British O scale is 1/43 anyway, so it didn’t occur to me that it was undersize, although not much. It’s a good match to the extruded aluminium coaches, though.
Still and all, a nice piece for a good price. I’m pleased with it.
Rockershovel posted:I’ll just mention here that my Berkshire is the #6-28649 version. Apart from the tender sounds, which were partly dismantled and possibly damaged by a PO, it’s a nice piece.
Runs smoothly, pulls well, stable on the long, loose-lay straights at a recent club running day (which some quite up-market engines weren’t...) body detail and finish were favourably remarked on.
It hadn’t occurred to me that it was a semi-Scale engine, although seeing it next to the K Line Hudson, it is obvious - I suppose I’m just used to seeing OO Scale British outline next to HO scale, US outline stock, and British O scale is 1/43 anyway, so it didn’t occur to me that it was undersize, although not much. It’s a good match to the extruded aluminium coaches, though.
Still and all, a nice piece for a good price. I’m pleased with it.
If you’re talking about that same K-Line Hudson that you were discussing in an earlier thread, then you should know it is also semi-scale.
Lionel’s smaller Polar Express Berkshire, which was introduced in train sets upon the release of the movie in 2004, is based on the film’s locomotive but compressed. The film locomotive is based on Pere Marquette no. 1225 and, in fact, used its sounds. More information is available. Just do a Google search.
K-Line’s K-3209-0605S Hudson, which you discussed in late October, is based on the J1e New York Central Hudson, but only loosely and is also traditional sized. It’s more a model of Lionel’s 2046 Hudson than anything else.
I must admit that I’m now completely bemused by the whole issue, I’ve completely lost track of what the terms are meant to mean.
The Berkshire is obviously compressed, sub-scale for 1:48. It’s about the same overall height and breadth (loading gauge) as the much older Scout, and the newer #8026 4-4-2. It has much better detail than either, although it’s definitely not the best detail I’ve ever seen. It’s visibly undersized compared to the TCA extruded coaches, and matches the 24xx coaches. It also has much finer wheels profiles than either, although I haven’t tried it on 2-Rail scale track for obvious reasons.
The Hudson is visibly taller and wider than the Berkshire, the same loading gauge as the TCA coaches and looks “right” with them, whereas it is visibly larger than the 24xx ones. It’s also taller, wider and longer than a Lionel PW Hudson which was at the last club “running day”.
I’m quite surprised by the variations in size between different models and manufacturers. That said, the Bachmann On30 stock is markedly undersize compared to the MMI and SJCC stock, so I suppose that’s a similar situation.
Well, what can I say? I like the Hudson, it’s a nice model by any standards, definitely better than the Berkshire and it attracted a lot of favourable comment at the running day, even without actually running. It looks good with the TCA consist behind it. I think I’ve resolved the “running on 12v DC” question, I’ll soon know. I’ve got a consist of tank cars and boxcars and a caboose for the Berkshire, and O27 stock for the 2-4-2 and 4-4-2.
I think I’m up and running. The Hudson and Berkshire are on “duty roster” for the display cabinet, which is pretty good for the company they’ll be keeping. I’m set for club days, which are good fun. I’ve got some track sorted out to go round the Xmas tree, and track sorted out for a small layout on a door.
Press on!
