Lionel 675/2025

There is a Philips head screw on top of the firebox, remove it. Then I think the front is hooked on so undo that by lifting the motor out. Do the usual cleaning of the commutator, check the gas for excess ply and war, and make sure the side rods etc  are all moving freely. I bought my 675 at a show and it was a little cranky at first but played with it and a nice runner now. Make sure you lube everything including the ends of the armature  shaft.  wasn't doing this and found out it can make a big difference.

Check to make sure the eccentric cranks are in the correct position.

 

Jon

This engine is one of the most complex to disassemble and reassemble.  Kinda like an E-Unit on wheels. 

 

You need to take out the screw in the top of the firebox, the screws under the steam-chests, and the long transverse screw hiding behind the rods.  You also have to take out the screws holding the cross-head guides.  Try to remember where they all came from.

 

Jon

when I take one of my 675s apart, I take the eccentric crank screws out, and don't have to mess with the crossheads.comes apart pretty easily.

Look for something caught in the gears, or a side rod bind.

 

remove the eccentric crank screws and place the rod assemblies away from the wheels. If they turn smoothly now, its a bind in the rods.  one common cause is the smoke unit lever.

 

Often I will use the tip of a sharp knife, such as a #11 Xacto knife, to clean the crud out of the space between the gear teeth, one by one. Quite a bit of stuff can build up in there.

 

If there is still a bind, it could still be the main rods (connecting the wheels). Try removing them.

Remove the boiler front, unclup the lamp assembly and set the boiler front aside. Remove both lead and trail trucks and set aside. Remove the eccentric screw on each side and slide the main rod and crosshead off the guide and set aside. You can remove the valve gear screw and remove that if you wish. Then remove the crosshead guides and set aside. Remove the two screws holding the pilot on and remove it. You may have to straighten the end of the handrails to assist in that removing the pilot. Where the crosshead guides were look for the slotted end of the front motor mounting screw and remove it. Remove the philips head screw from the top of the belpaire firebox and pull the motor straight down and out.

 

Reassemble in reverse order. The eccentrics are correct if when installed the point where the rod connects to the pin is just offset from the center of the wheel. If its hanging out around the edge of the wheel its backwards.

 

If the loco has been sitting that long a good dis-assembly and cleaning is prudent making sure you have the caked on grease removed from all the gears.

 

 

Tin

atlayank,

          As KoolJock stated the 675/2025 engines are probably the most difficult post-war Lionel engines to disassemble and reassemble.  If you are not sure how to proceed there are two things I would suggest you do before beginning your project.  If you have one refer to Greenberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Post-war Lionel Trains which will provide you with exploded schematics for these engines which clearly identify all of their parts and where they go.  If you don't have a copy of this manual I would obtain one as it is worth its  weight in gold when it comes to post-war repairs.  Secondly, If you have a copy refer to Roland LaVoie's Greenberg's Model Railroading with Lionel Trains which provides an excellent printed narrative on the disaassembly and reassembly of these engines on pages 101 through 105.  This is another book I recommend you purchase if you don't have one.  Both of these publications are usually available at train shows and on Amazon and ABEBOOKS.com.  Hope this helps and good luck.  These engines are worth the effort. 

The 2025 was my first Lionel train as a kid.  I was always taking it apart and putting it back together.  One of the easiest mistakes to make in reassembly is the position of the eccentric cranks, as kooljock mentioned above. 

 

With all due respect to the detailed advice from the other posters, try this simple test first before disassembling anything: hold the engine upside down in one hand and turn the wheels as hard as you can with your other hand.  If they don’t turn freely for several revolutions then the eccentric cranks are probably the cause.  Just back out one of the eccentric crank screws and turn it 180 degrees, tighten and see if that solves the problem.  If not, refer to the advice from the other posters and if you still need any help I can post a scan of the service manual pages if you need them.

 

Bill 

I had a similar issue many years ago.  In my case, one of the driver wheels was loose on the axle and would sometimes get out of quarter and bind up.  It seemed very random and then fix itself for awhile or by turning the drivers back and forth by hand, it would eventually unlock itself and it was fine.

 

I brought it over to a friend of mine who likes to fix post war locomotives because this issue was driving me nuts and I couldn't figure how it was getting bound up.

 

While he and I were doing a quick visual examination, the driver wheel just fell off which made it completely obvious what the real issue was.

 

After reattaching the driver wheel to the axle with a drop of superglue, and re-quartering, its been over 10 years without any issues.

I had the same problem with my own 675, which makes me suspect that it's fairly common.  I fixed mine the same way you did, and so far, it's been fine.

 

Everyone has good suggestions,I would look at the brush plate and if you have gear chatter,you can make a bushing and epoxy it to the brush plate,this will eliminate the gear chatter.

Mikey

May also be the lever for the smoke unit jamming the crosshead.

Thank you for all the suggestions and helpful information.

 

I hope to work on the train this weekend and find the root cause.

 

I will post what I find.

 

Thank you for your time, Ron.

Thanks Bill it was the eccentric cranks.  

 

Now the issue is there is a wining noise when it is running.  

 

I will need to take off the shell and clean everything out I guess to eliminate the noise. 

 

If a part of the service manual will help with taking it apart, I would appreciate you sharing the information. 

 

Thanks for for your time, Ron. 

Ron,

By asking how do you take this engine a part tells me you have never done this. Also, I don't believe you have any supply of Lionel parts that you may need to repair this locomotive. I really think you should take your engine to a Lionel Service Center. Please let someone that knows what they are doing repair your train. I will give you a A for effort but if you take it to a Lionel Service Center I will give you a A+. This may not be the time for you to start repairing trains. If you need, I can recommend a good Service Center here in Western PA.

Hi Ron:

 

I’m glad I was able to help you out.

 

Regarding the “whining” sound, could it be more of a “growling” sound?  If so, you can also fix that without disassembling the loco.  Attached is a scan of a somewhat worn copy of the #2025 Operating Instructions.  Note the instructions for lubricating the end of armature shaft described on page 3 and pictured in figure 4.  Put a dab of lubricant on that spot and also a dab on the other end of the shaft which is reachable from the on the opposite side.  That may solve the sound problem without disassembling it which will make you, me and Jimmy happy!    If that doesn’t solve it, let us know.  When I get a chance I’ll scan the service manual pages and post them, too.

 

Bill 

Thanks Jon it was the eccentric cranks. 

the first steamer I took apart was my 675. a little tricky at first, but not bad. and I never did think the 675s were as bad to take apart as I had always heard. 

Glad to hear that you found it

OLSTENS 675

OLSTENS 2025  This one shows the smoke unit

 

 

Jerry

Ron:

 

As promised, attached is a pdf file with the service manual pages for a 1947-49 vintage 675 or 2025.  BTW, the links to Olsen’s provided by Jerry above are for the 1952 model 675 and 2025.  Some of the parts are interchangeable between the early and late versions but most are not.  You haven’t told us which one you have so the easiest way to distinguish them would be the trailing truck.  If you have a 2-wheel trailing truck it is a 1947-49 model.  If it’s a 4-wheel trailing truck it’s a 1952 model.

 

HTH,

 

Bill

Thank you everyone for the assistance, opinions and documentation.

 

I put some lube on the armature shaft like Bill suggested, but it did not seem to help.  It runs and has power, but it is very noisy. Thank you for the documentation Bill though, I was not sure where it needed to go.

 

I have either a 48 or 49 2-6-2.  It does not have the aluminum stack that the 47 had.

 

I have a 675 2-6-2 for reference now, so I think I am going to dive in sometime during the week and clean everything up.

 

Thank you for your time, Ron.

Best of luck to you.

 

quote:

I have a 675 2-6-2 for reference now, so I think I am going to dive in sometime during the week and clean everything up.

 

I think you are making the right choice. Everybody has to start somewhere. Just take your time, and don't force anything. If you run into an issue, make a post, and I am certain there will be no shortage of people willing to help you.

 

One comment of caution: DO NOT use denatured alcohol to clean the motor. I learned the hard way that some Lionel motors can be ruined by using alcohol. Apparently some motors were made with wire having insulation that dissolves with alcohol. I only ruined a couple of armatures before I figured out what was happening.

Man I wished I would have known that.  I think that is my issue.  

 

I cleaned part of the armature with a q-tip and isopropol alcohol.

 

That might be where all the noise is coming from.

 

Should it be cleaned with contact cleaner?

 

Thank you for your time, Ron.

Very doubtful cleaning with alcohol would make it run noisey. If it were to affect anything it would attack the windings insulation and cause a short. Go with your plan to disassemble and clean. Personally I avoid using any solvents. Clean the gunk from between the commutator segments with a tooth pick, then burnish with 400 grit sandpaper or finer or you can use an abrasive block such as an ink eraser or Bright Boy. 

 

 

I should have been more specific. I ruined a few armatures by cleaning them with denatured alcohol. I don't know whether isopropyl alcohol would attack the insulation.

 

When I want to use a solvent for a greasy armature, I moisten a QTip with mineral spirits, and wipe away the grime.

 

 

It sounds to me like your loco is in severe need of lubrication. providing lube on the armature shaft is one thing, but what about the bearings, and a small amount on the linkage, axles etc? I had a 675 that did the same thing until I properly lubricated it. Haven't had one bit of trouble since and runs like a swiss watch.

I have used mineral spirits with reasonable success.  It's mentioned a lot in the old repair articles.  I also recommend the repair manuals by jwtrains.com.   they are engine specific and are step by step instructions with pictures on how to take apart and put back together the engine.  They don't cost a lot and you can get the article emailed to you.

my '47 675 runs quietly, my '52 growels, but runs great.

It's the magnatraction

None of those locomotives had magnetraction (675, 2025).  Only the 2035 did.  I have three of the non-magnetraction units including a '47 and a '52, I find them easy to work on with plentiful used parts available, and run great.

There are a couple things not mentioned here that I will share.One is if you use  solvents on the brush plates lionel uses which are made of fiber board, you may dry it out and you will not be able to stop the squeak no matter what you try. Best to leave it alone around the armature holes. 

The other is on the armature end that has the small gear pressed on that runs behind the gear plate, sometimes the end of the gear that rides against the plate has a burr or rough edge that needs to be smoothed down to stop the squeak that starts in about 30 minutes of running time when the oil runs out.

Rob

That's good to know.  I would never have thought of the fiberboard brush plate, but it makes perfect sense.  Thanks

Been a while so I thought I would let you know that the noise was coming from one of the wheels.  

 

I took the locomotive over to a train store and the owner Tom, 93 years old, said he would take a look at it.  If he could not fix it, he could not charge me anything.  If he could fix it, it would be about $10.  Tom is great to talk with also.  Tom said someone in the past took the wheels off and did not align them perfectly.  He wasn't going to dive into that big of a job so he said I did not owe him anything.  He said if it was his, he would just run it and enjoy it.

 

I ended up buying a postwar caboose from him for $12 with the box.

 

Great time visiting with him and got a great caboose also.

That helps to explain why the eccentric cranks weren't installed correctly. 

 

Bill