Lionel 8101 Red Chicago & Alton, vs. Lionel 8801 Blue Comet? Why the hate and love?

The 8101 and 8801 are essentially the same mechanically and are at their core 2046/646's.  The Alton has a die cast tender and the Comet a plastic tender.  Both have the crude (by today's standards) white noise "Mighty Sound of Steam."

As far as paint: It's eye of the beholder land, although I thought the Alton's paint appeared a little "muddy" to my eyes.

And back in the day these were considered "Top Of The Line" locomotives.

Rusty

Part of the preference is the "Blue Comet Mystique,"  originating in the Prewar, deluxe Standard Gauge set that is the dream of many collectors.  Though the MPC set is not the same by any means, the mere name attracts.

If you get either, don't expect it to fail in a hurry.  A little maintenance, and it will probably outlast you.  The association of MPC with junk is both untrue and unfair.  I have a truly bottom-end MPC engine that has more hours on it than can be counted, has only needed a set of brushes and lube over the last 50 years, and which is the ONLY Lionel engine I own that has NO problems--unlike the two postwar and the several modern era (i.e. expensive, command, scale).

I like red, so I think the C&A set look much better, but that is simple preference.  Neither is particularly realistic or scale, so be advised ahead of time.  Both are attractive, generally reliable, and a pleasure to run.

They are MPC remakes of PW engines and are of good quality. Keep em oiled. So either one is a winner.

I personally wouldn't give you two cents for a Blue Comet. I bought the early C&A set (that you are speaking of) and add-on cars for my daughter because it was a much nicer looking train set. I can't say the same for the newest Lionel C&A. It was very drab looking. I went with K-Line for the closer to scale C&A set.

Wow.  Thanks for all of the comments, particularly those of Palallin.

The C&A red color is a little "muddy", but other than the light directly overhead of my layout, the basement is fairly dim, so I want to add some moving color with reds.   Black or Navy Blue Locos just don't show up very well.   Bright candy colored reds give the trains too much of a toy-like look to me.

Big Jim, so how good was the early C&A set you bought your daughter? How long did it last?   (I would never buy any of the modern stuff, because I just don't fancy computer control items.)

Mannyrock

Everything Lionel I own is either prewar or MPC era. I see no issues with the MPC era items at all. In my opinion I feel that MPC era items are just as good as anything postwar with out the inflated pricing. Why pay more for something? If you plan to run it just get the later releases and save some money in the process. Honestly I think the only people who really seem to hate the MPC era stuff are folks who will never look outside the postwar era anyways or folks who only want high end scale items.

My Red train is a great set. I plan to get the Comet someday also. Check out my YouTube videos if you want to see much of my MPC era items in action. The Fallen Flags Wabash is also a great overlooked set.

I agree with Jim , Palallin, and ramblin Don-  repainted my MPC 4-6-2 to CN, runs like a top!  Have 3 newer engines with dead electronics I plan on “down-grading” to just reversing boards , so I can run them again.  A very expensive lesson!! I also have had no issues with my Williams steamers.  Often simpler is better!! JohnA

The C&A comes with a premium tender, and when coupled to its train creates the best looking train in Lionel’s history.

Jon

I have had both and still own the Blue Comet set . Both locomotives are rugged, dependable  and I like the paint scheme on both. I don’t think you can go wrong with either . The C&A does have a nicer tender . I may replace the C&A I sold years ago at some point . I kept the Blue Comet as it belonged to a good friend who left us way too soon.

Either set is attractive and beautifully decorated. 👍 BOTH would look great!

Actually the C&A set is an upgrade from the Blue Comet. Die cast tender and a 'whistle' sound the B.C. does not have. Plus metal 6 wheel trucks vs. 4 wheel trucks with a non-operating coupler. Both locomotives have the same motor and drive assembly.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Actually the C&A set is an upgrade from the Blue Comet. Die cast tender and a 'whistle' sound the B.C. does not have. Plus metal 6 wheel trucks vs. 4 wheel trucks with a non-operating coupler. Both locomotives have the same motor and drive assembly.

The Blue Comet has 6 wheel metal trucks. But the C&A tender is very nice upgrade

@Mannyrock posted:

Wow.  Thanks for all of the comments, particularly those of Palallin.

The C&A red color is a little "muddy", but other than the light directly overhead of my layout, the basement is fairly dim, so I want to add some moving color with reds.   Black or Navy Blue Locos just don't show up very well.   Bright candy colored reds give the trains too much of a toy-like look to me.

Big Jim, so how good was the early C&A set you bought your daughter? How long did it last?   (I would never buy any of the modern stuff, because I just don't fancy computer control items.)

Mannyrock

Manny,

Like the others have said, it was/is a great set. The colors make it something special for its time! She still has it. Somewhere in the OGR catacombs there is an article about this set.

I have 3  different Altons and a standard gauge comet. The Alton was the set that brought me back into the hobby and I bought it at Madison Hardware. If you're not buying the Standard Gauge Blue Comet...buy the alton , its red and it still runs...

rat

I missed both of them when they first came out. I'm still kicking myself to this day.

I had both and the passenger cars that went with them. Both are great engines and with very little care they will run forever.

I wish I never sold them when I went to the scale sized in the 90's. Never had a problem, that's more then I can say about the modern era trains.

Dave

@Brian White, I have never seen a MPC Blue Comet tender with 6 wheel trucks.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

@Brian White, I have never seen a MPC Blue Comet tender with 6 wheel trucks.

The passenger cars had 6 wheel trucks on the blue comet not the tender.

Dave

Yes, the beefy tender on the C&A is very nice looking.  There was a C&A engine plus tender on ebay last week, which said the whistle and chuff on the tender didn't work, going for around $90.  I guess I should have snapped that up.

Thanks for putting me at ease regarding the MPCs.   

Mannyrock

Since I am an MPC guy, I will chime in. I have both sets, they both look great and run well. The C&A is a little bit more rugged. The tender is die cast and has the Mighty Sound of Steam and the Whistle, where as the Blue Comet only has the steam sound.

You cant go wrong with either. Proper maintenance and the MPC line will run forever, alot longer then the Lionel Chinese/Vietnam scale imports :-)

I have the C&A red one.  It's really more of a burgundy color.  The gold accents along with the silvery smoke box look very nice.  The Comet's blue color looks more garish and toy-like to me.  The C&A's tender is also nice heavy metal with good detail.

Also, I'd think a red locomotive would be more appropriate for a Christmas layout than a blue one.

I loved them both. I also loved the Southern Crescent.

I have the 8801 blue comet complete set and rarely run it is still like new,also always wanted the other two sets SC and C&A but life got in the way.

Question why the nylon gear instead of a metal one was it cost or something else ?

Cost

@John A posted:

Cost

Supposedly, the nylon gears were quieter, but no substitute or metal gears.

Manny,

The next issue of OGR has a Collector's Gallery article about both the MPC Blue Comet and C A engines which you will find valuable for background in making your decision. I can echo most of the posters who say the engines are rugged , attractive and generally reliable.

  I use more modern Lionel sound cars in place of the original Sound of Steam and C A whistle. Details are in the Collector's Gallery article, which I recommend for anyone interested in these locomotives.

Ed Boyle

The C&A cars look like the GM&O cars I saw on a commuter train in the mid 1970's in Chicago Union.

I had the C&A set and loved it.  Finally sold it because I didn't like the "static noise" they used for the chuffing sound.  If I had kept it I could have installed a new board with real sounds, but who knew back then.

i always wanted the lionel set,,,but when i say the k-line set ,,,bingo,,,,

I have an MPC era semi-Scale Hudson and I’ve come to appreciate its qualities. It’s a solid loco, didn’t cost a lot and because it has an open-frame motor, I just leave the Sound of Steam unplugged - there is no rectifier in the tender. It smokes well and pulls reasonably well.

It also has a die-cast tender with 6-wheel trucks which I rather like, I believe it’s the same as the one on the Williams semi-Scale Hudson?

TBH, if I were shopping at a budget something like that would be on my list.

@Ed Boyle posted:

The next issue of OGR has a Collector's Gallery article about both the MPC Blue Comet and C A engines which you will find valuable for background in making your decision. I can echo most of the posters who say the engines are rugged , attractive and generally reliable.

I will have to check around and see if I can pick up that issue from one of the hobby shops around here.

One more question please about the nylon gear are they long lasting as the metal ones or perhaps last longer? The ones i have are quieter than the similar motors like the postwar 2046 which is nice just not as quiet but otherwise great runners .Thanks

I think if you keep up with lubrication it will last a long time. JohnA

Just read Ed's article in Collector's Gallery in Run 315 of the magazine (digital edition).

Some great information and pictures on the trains discussed above.