Lionel announces 2 way communication with new 4 digit addressing!

Yes this opens up a LOT of possibilities down the road.  Can’t wait to talk to Dave and the Lionel folks at York about this!   The LUG meeting just got more interesting!  

Thanks for posting Marty, I'll have to take a look and listen to Dave. Even though I'm not ordering a Base3/Cab3 ATM, it's always good to have some extra knowledge with what's up and going on.

BTW Dave did mention a Cab2 update 1.72 to to correct some bugs with the Legacy Crane car and add some code for Cab2 to support Bluetooth and RF w/Base3.

I still have to upgrade mine to the lastest. I think I'm at 1.62 or something there. Whatever was the upgrade after the Niagara's I think. I'll have to check that out tonight. Always good to be up to date.

I dunno, I already have 3 kids that talk back.....😐😉

This is great to hear for the folks investing in the new base 3. I hope Lionel has other goodies in store for them.

@MartyE posted:

BTW Dave did mention a Cab2 update 1.72 to to correct some bugs with the Legacy Crane car and add some code for Cab2 to support Bluetooth and RF w/Base3.

Hasn't made it to the upgrade page yet.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hasn't made it to the upgrade page yet.

No it's not there yet.  Later in the year.

Thanks @MartyE for posting this, I heard that last night and now I can understand their hype on this new radio board for the locomotives it’s gone from just a receiver, to receiver and transmitter. While I think most can agree that a 4 digit address is a nice convenience it didn’t make a lot of sense as a hyped up new feature. Now now that it also mean 2 way communication it means a lot more.

The Class A looks and sounds great! Glad I ordered one of them. I should probably order a Base3.

So the Base 3 will finally do what DCS has done for 20 years? Cool.

I, for one, am excited about the availability of real-time fuel/water levels. Couple that to the force draw bar and momentum settings for dynamic fuel consumption. Would be cool if there was an option to have the engine stop when it runs out of fuel (a boiler explosion might be too dramatic in the case of depleted water levels).

Sounds like they're going to put their longer range BlueTooth to use for the return channel.  I can't see any way they send it back like TMCC/Legacy given that the signal going out is continuous.

I am curious really just how well Bluetooth will work in a large setting like the NJ-HR layout...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sounds like they're going to put their longer range BlueTooth to use for the return channel.  I can't see any way they send it back like TMCC/Legacy given that the signal going out is continuous.

I am curious really just how well Bluetooth will work in a large setting like the NJ-HR layout...

I'd think the return data wouldn't be required for locomotive operation. I mean if you run these new 4 digit locos on a CAB 1 or 2 the return data has no where to go but the engine will still be tuned into the track signal and run normally.

I still see some advantages to using a sensor track such as programmable ques when a locomotives arrives at a sensor track location.

Wow, you all are way out of my league, I call this smart technology and a really cool way to operate our trains and Im very interested in this new Cab 3, so, in a layman’s terms Question, will cab 3 send out a better signal for our Cab 2 remotes to keep in sync with our engines walking around our layouts? Sometimes my cab 2 seems lost when I try accessing the trains in certain parts of my layout area. This is exciting times in model railroading, great topic. Happy Railroading Everyone

Since they'll be 2 way communication I wonder if we'll now be able to load sound files or control board firmware. That would be nice.

Is it possible then that a return information would be sent back via a different carrier wave? I would really hope that they don’t use that questionable off the shelf Bluetooth module for that. And with all this talk about a completely different radio board would mean that somehow they plan to use something other than BLE

Glad that I ordered a base 3, looking forward to seeing what it will do!

@MartyE posted:

BTW Dave did mention a Cab2 update 1.72 to to correct some bugs with the Legacy Crane car and add some code for Cab2 to support Bluetooth and RF w/Base3.

Thanks for posting this @MartyE although the main thing I was interested in, apart from seeing how the CAB3 app will work, was the CAB2 update to deal with a Legacy crane issue. Dave did not say what that issue is but I think I have got it; both the rotation and boom control on my SP version have gone bad - in particular the “rotation” is now full quarter turns when I press the boom control! I have not seen any posts on this and was thinking a new control board in the crane might be required, which is hardly an easy fix.

@Hancock52 posted:

Thanks for posting this @MartyE although the main thing I was interested in, apart from seeing how the CAB3 app will work, was the CAB2 update to deal with a Legacy crane issue. Dave did not say what that issue is but I think I have got it; both the rotation and boom control on my SP version have gone bad - in particular the “rotation” is now full quarter turns when I press the boom control! I have not seen any posts on this and was thinking a new control board in the crane might be required, which is hardly an easy fix.

Legacy 1.7 and crane car discussed with screenshots https://ogrforum.com/...0#159660139206873590

@Vernon Barry posted:

Legacy 1.7 and crane car discussed with screenshots https://ogrforum.com/...0#159660139206873590

Thanks, I have been though that thread now. My operating problems seem to me to be worse than the ones you found, especially the way the cab lurches instead of turning smoothly, and the car worked fine initially under my existing CAB 2 software, which I believe is in fact v. 1.7. However I will check this again and try your settings. I had not paid attention to the specific keypad icons and whether they have changed from what I thought were the default crane mode ones.

I'll wait for Dave to explain how there are managing the 2 way communication.  Anything from other sources is just hearsay. 

The Cab3 app does look pretty good.  I do hope they use some tactile feedback for labor, and some of the control increments.

@zhubl posted:

Is it possible then that a return information would be sent back via a different carrier wave? I would really hope that they don’t use that questionable off the shelf Bluetooth module for that. And with all this talk about a completely different radio board would mean that somehow they plan to use something other than BLE

It's hard to imagine they're trying to send the return communication via the track, look at the issues on many layouts with MTH doing that.  As Marty says, it would be nice to hear from Dave what they're using, but I'll be very amazed if they're attempting to send it back as a track signal.

@Hancock52 posted:

Thanks, I have been though that thread now. My operating problems seem to me to be worse than the ones you found, especially the way the cab lurches instead of turning smoothly, and the car worked fine initially under my existing CAB 2 software, which I believe is in fact v. 1.7. However I will check this again and try your settings. I had not paid attention to the specific keypad icons and whether they have changed from what I thought were the default crane mode ones.

Sad to say, I'm 98% sure your issue is not a software issue, but rather a failure in the crane car.  The lurching suggests a mechanical issue.

After watching Dave's presentation, I put my order in for a Base3.  I can't believe I'm pondering the retirement my CAB-1s!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sad to say, I'm 98% sure your issue is not a software issue, but rather a failure in the crane car.  The lurching suggests a mechanical issue.

Yeah, I thought that a mechanical issue might be the case. I noticed, without taking anything apart yet that, oddly, the main large gear under the cab does not seem to turn with the cab itself. In the past I have studied the exploded parts diagram for the previous TMCC versions and had one such crane apart, so I have a general idea of what engages with and turns what. But yet another voyage of Lionel discovery seems to be in store.

I am happy with my CAB2 and was discounting the CAB3.  Now I may have to consider getting a CAB3 but I will wait to hear about some real world experiences.

Keep in mind that the 2-way addressing is only if you buy new Legacy locomotives, not for any of your existing fleet.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Keep in mind that the 2-way addressing is only if you buy new Legacy locomotives, not for any of your existing fleet.

Good point, John. And don’t forget that also goes for 4-digit ID’s

@Apples55 posted:

Good point, John. And don’t forget that also goes for 4-digit ID’s

Naturally.

The sad part is, with some software work, they could have extended the benefit of 4-digit addressing to existing TMCC/Legacy locomotives.  Simply by providing a translation feature that translates 2-digit TMCC addresses to 4-digit addresses, they could allow you to use 4-digit addresses to map to the full cab number for existing locomotives.

Now, that would be a worthwhile feature and would likely change my mind about getting the BASE3!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Naturally.

The sad part is, with some software work, they could have extended the benefit of 4-digit addressing to existing TMCC/Legacy locomotives.  Simply by providing a translation feature that translates 2-digit TMCC addresses to 4-digit addresses, they could allow you to use 4-digit addresses to map to the full cab number for existing locomotives.

Now, that would be a worthwhile feature and would likely change my mind about getting the BASE3!

You mean like selecting an engine by Cab#?

Duh, that's something I never looked into, I guess it's already there and I don't need to buy the BASE3!

Marty;

Like John, I was unaware of addressing by cab# - I will have to give that method a try. While that will help addressing an engine without knowing the ID number, since you still use the Cab2 to address the engine, it is still limited by the 2-digit limit when loading the engine data into the Cab2 base. My biggest problem is that I am pretty much out of space on my Cab2 (caused in part by the proliferation of sound cars).

Don't need to buy the Base3?!!

Saves me about $500, plus shipping and tax.

For many of us, two way communication is not a major thing.  Indeed, I frequently pick up my Universal Remote for the newer Legacy engines, LionChief 2.0+ LionChief, LionChief+ locos because it is so simple and reliable.  For those with complex or very large layouts, it's probably a different story.  The older I get, the more simplicity appeals .

@MartyE posted:

You mean like selecting an engine by Cab#?

Works for me. I just tried it out. I entered a 4 digit cab number and it recognizes the locomotive. Thanks!
DK

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Keep in mind that the 2-way addressing is only if you buy new Legacy locomotives, not for any of your existing fleet.

Thanks, John.  Like Alan, you saved me $500.  Are you sure you aren’t going to dream up something to let old engines talk back?

Luckily I model the Rutland. I have a fleet of 11 rd. Steamers. They all have 2 digit numbers. Only their switchers had 3 digit numbers and both my 0-8-0’s are MTH.

@Danr posted:

Thanks, John.  Like Alan, you saved me $500.  Are you sure you aren’t going to dream up something to let old engines talk back?

That  ain't happening I suspect.  That requires modification of the code on the RCMC boards, there's only one entity that has access to that code.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That  ain't happening I suspect.  That requires modification of the code on the RCMC boards, there's only one entity that has access to that code.

I believe John is right on the money. When they first announced the Cab3, I asked that question and Dave Olson promptly replied that it would not be happening for technical reasons. Made an upgrade to the Cab3 much less appealing to me!!!