Lionel at TCA Museum Wednesday, April 10

The videos of the presentations are now up on the TCA website.

Lionlman posted:

The videos of the presentations are now up on the TCA website.

 

I got that email too right after I posted the topic.  It always seems to work that way.

Can someone post the links here?

The Lionel presentation is already on Youtube. They also talk about the next brass-hybrid engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKFGP7usnc4

Nice summation of the points that stuck out for you Peter. These presentation videos are always worth watching, and often times answer questions people ask here on the forum.

Also worth noting at the end when Ryan took questions, someone asked about the Spy Versus Spy car being cancelled. And Ryan pointed out that the orders did not justify the cost of tooling up the characters for the car.

There are those on this forum who still believe tooling costs are nothing, when the truth is quite opposite. If one bothers to watch the presentation by Mike Wolf, he mentions several times, the prohibitive costs of tooling in relation to small production runs and the risks involved.

And I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but the Bachmann presentation had to be one of the less exciting of all time. Jack Lynch always managed to pull off an informative presentation, regardless of whatever product was being showcased. This time around, the one new O-gauge offering (in front of an O-gauge audience) wasn't even mentioned until the end. The camera shots of the finally produced 70-Ton switcher made it look very nice indeed. But the Bachmann rep spent more time and enthusiasm on the new Promontory, Utah commemorative HO starter set. For a guy that has spent his life career in advertising, well, I'm sorry but that was a toot and a snore.

And going back to tooling costs, the 3-rail companies don't talk about this outside of generalities. But one of the HO companies has said tooling cost alone (just the dies) for a new HO locomotive is at the quarter-million dollar mark. Now add in R&D costs and paint masks. Never mind the initial production run, which has to be paid for in full before it leaves China.

Now consider that the dies for O scale products are more than double the size. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the costs for some of the more detailed O gauge engine products are approaching the half-million dollar mark. This would line up with what Mike Wolf  (and previously Jack Lynch) talked about when they say that tooling costs are prohibitive when it comes to considering the small production runs of many of these items.

Dave Olson at one time wrote on this forum that Lionel spent 85 thousand dollars to modify the tooling of an existing locomotive. If they sold 8,500 units over the course of several production runs, that would be a price increase of $10.00 per locomotive just to cover that tooling modification alone.

I think all the train companies in the O gauge/scale market are doing an incredible job trying to please an ever demanding marketplace (that assumes new product should be as simple as going through the burger joint drive-thru) under increasingly challenging circumstances.

And Ryan apologized for the last "Ryan & Dave Show." 

Rysty

Yes he did Rusty, and he also joked about the problems with the previous production runs of the Acela, which I thought was rather surprising - but honest - from a representative of Lionel. 

Matter of fact, I think Ryan was more relaxed at this particular presentation. Maybe because he knew he didn't have to stay for a few more days? 

I do believe though, that the scale side of the O gauge marketplace has a friend in both Ryan and Dave. To be simple and brief, Lionel has come under criticism in the past couple years for a variety of issues. Ryan and Dave are both on this forum and must be aware of not only the problems, but also the sorts of products people are interested in seeing. And I'm sure they are not at liberty to talk about everything inside Lionel here on this forum.

Put yourself in either of their shoes: They have to please the corporate office and they have to try and please the consumer. No easy task these days.

I haven't see the video yet(will watch tonight) and I can agree completely about tooling, R&D and the like. I have talked with both Ryan and Dave(when at York) and I approach them like they are friends because it is better to talk to a friend(in a good tone) than to come out like an angry or upset person.

I always ask how are they(themselves) are doing(sleep well, early rise) to break the ice and ask what we have here(what they're showcasing) and go from there. I will chat a while(trying not to hog them) and ask or inquire more like it about possible ideas for engines or other such things and I understand that I'm just putting it out there and they most likely can't comment(if they are already considering) because they got to protect their own first. 

I always have a blast just talking about these things and hope that what I'm asking about is in the works. When I saw the Hudson in the catalog this year, a smile went to my face because I had asked back in 2017 and I'm sure they had already done more than half of the legwork but couldn't utter a word. I hope that they've already started working on other things I've thought about, and hopefully they will be able to make it happen(Canadian Royal Hudson's). The possibility is always there, just needs enough of something to make it happen.

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Nice summation of the points that stuck out for you Peter. These presentation videos are always worth watching, and often times answer questions people ask here on the forum.

Also worth noting at the end when Ryan took questions, someone asked about the Spy Versus Spy car being cancelled. And Ryan pointed out that the orders did not justify the cost of tooling up the characters for the car.

There are those on this forum who still believe tooling costs are nothing, when the truth is quite opposite. If one bothers to watch the presentation by Mike Wolf, he mentions several times, the prohibitive costs of tooling in relation to small production runs and the risks involved.

And I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but the Bachmann presentation had to be one of the less exciting of all time. Jack Lynch always managed to pull off an informative presentation, regardless of whatever product was being showcased. This time around, the one new O-gauge offering (in front of an O-gauge audience) wasn't even mentioned until the end. The camera shots of the finally produced 70-Ton switcher made it look very nice indeed. But the Bachmann rep spent more time and enthusiasm on the new Promontory, Utah commemorative HO starter set. For a guy that has spent his life career in advertising, well, I'm sorry but that was a toot and a snore.

And going back to tooling costs, the 3-rail companies don't talk about this outside of generalities. But one of the HO companies has said tooling cost alone (just the dies) for a new HO locomotive is at the quarter-million dollar mark. Now add in R&D costs and paint masks. Never mind the initial production run, which has to be paid for in full before it leaves China.

Now consider that the dies for O scale products are more than double the size. I personally wouldn't be surprised if the costs for some of the more detailed O gauge engine products are approaching the half-million dollar mark. This would line up with what Mike Wolf  (and previously Jack Lynch) talked about when they say that tooling costs are prohibitive when it comes to considering the small production runs of many of these items.

Dave Olson at one time wrote on this forum that Lionel spent 85 thousand dollars to modify the tooling of an existing locomotive. If they sold 8,500 units over the course of several production runs, that would be a price increase of $100.00 per locomotive just to break even with the tooling modification alone.

I think all the train companies in the O gauge/scale market are doing an incredible job trying to please an ever demanding marketplace (that assumes new product should be as simple as going through the burger joint drive-thru) under increasingly challenging circumstances.

 

Wouldn’t that be an increase of $10 not $100.

You are correct Doug. Hit too many zeros. Guess that's where folks sometimes get upset when they see a $100.00 increase in price for a $10.00 revision.   I'll correct my post. Thanks. Geez, I should be working for the government (NOT).