Lionel Base 3/Cab 3 Initial Impressions

@Garfield Irwin posted:

The downside is that it will be impossible to replicate cab3 with a dedicated controller -- any hardwired controller is going to be an exercise in compromise going forward. Such is the power of software based control systems these days. Anyway, it's hard to criticize Lionel for taking the path they are w.r.t. train control systems, but I still hope they release some sort of cab2 replacement in the future -- I refuse to pay $2000 CAD for a cab2 on the used market that you can't get parts for any more. The high prices for cab2's on the used market in itself suggests there's a market for a fairly-full-featured dedicated remote.

I have to disagree. The Cab 2 does most everything the Cab 3 does, and better. A future CAB 3 handheld dedicated controller will surely have more features, perhaps even having a screen capable of displaying color graphics, pictures and video and suffice anyone's need to control a model railroad. And that leaves the phone free to do what a phone does which is send and recieve phone and texts wothout interrupting model railroad operation. It can be done, why not? And it would be a great thing.

@Garfield Irwin posted:

The Cab3 app is clearly a work in process, but I am happy Lionel released it as-is and not delay it further.

They've delayed it several times a la the delays on the Base3. All under the guise of "We want it to be perfect."

Nothing I've seen so far compels me to get a Base3 or even be sad that the Cab3 doesn't work with my LCS Wi-Fi module that was promised early on.

Part of me wonders if the current incarnation of Lionel even owns the rights to the source code for the 990 Base and Remote given how poorly this first release went.

@rplst8 posted:

Part of me wonders if the current incarnation of Lionel even owns the rights to the source code for the 990 Base and Remote given how poorly this first release went.

Hard to believe Lionel don't own the rights to the code, that's not a mistake that would be easily made in this day and age.  I have been told that the software development was not in-house, which may explain some of the issues with the early release.

The current CAB3 software issues are likely similar to what MTH will be experiencing with their WTIU, that code is also being developed out of house.  I'm guessing similar issues will accompany the first versions of that upcoming release.

In my working life, I was involved with several projects that had software and hardware developed by different entities with minimal communication between the two groups.  Some of the things that we see here look all too familiar.

Anyone heard anything about the Base 3 System Utility that was supposed to be released Sept 1st?

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

Anyone heard anything about the Base 3 System Utility that was supposed to be released Sept 1st?

Base 3 system utility download for PC

This reminds me of Windows, Microsoft was so afraid info would leak out that each team was isolated from the other, than poof the glitch’s began.

I'de like to say thank goodness for the HALT button on the Cab2. It works instantly. I've had to use it 3 times in the last 2 weeks to save collisions with dropped cars. If I was using the Cab3 I would have had to hold it for 2 seconds and it would have been too late with potential damage. So asside from RF and bluetooth control what is this Base3 doing for us we didn't already have with a Cab2?

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

So asside from RF and bluetooth control what is this Base3 doing for us we didn't already have with a Cab2?

Not much, a lot of little things that aren't of major significance yet like 4-digit addressing.

Well, there are virtues to Cab3.  The Cab3 app will let us control “radio” kid’s locos and Bluetooth for LionChief2 Plus locos from our phone or tablet instead of looking for the original remote; and the virtue of the roster features in Cab3.  Good reason to pick a nicely sized tablet (iPad for now at least) to use for Cab3 so it’s not a tiny screen, but not too large to easily handle with one hand or stuff in a “holster” while operating.  I’ll be carrying a cutoff switch for electrical outlets too, since for MTH I’m using Passive TIU with an inactive emergency stop button.

Other virtue: In the A-Z roster you can have lookup by road number if you want, to quickly find your loco’s TMCC ID by road number lookup.  You just use the road number to begin “road name” field you enter.  As in “1395 C&NW 4-4-2”.  If you have 4 digit road numbers in your roster, you would start with 0001 for a loco with road number “1” to create correct sorting.  It will sort by numbers same as letters, so A-Z roster is sorted by road number instead of whatever other word or number comes first otherwise, which I will value a bunch.  See “Sean’s Train Depot” YouTube short video titled “Quick Tips: Roster sorting and picture cropping” to watch how he used this in his accessories roster.  He put the TMCC ID number with zeros as needed, at the beginning of the accessory name field, but it can be done in any of the rosters including engines.

BUT, all the regular TMCC and Legacy locos will be run by a Cab 1L or my Cab2 for sure.  The app is fine for a kid or guest with a phone, running a loco that is not precious, on a track with no other trains that are precious

BTW, Lionel is taking Cab2 with dead Direction button back for repair under warranty despite that it’s 16 years since I bought the 990 set.

I am new enough to the hobby that I do not have any of: TMCC, LCS, Cab 1L, Legacy Powermaster,  Cab 2, or sensor track.

My layout has O-60 and O-72 FasTrack lines and a GW-180 transformer. I have two post-war engines from my childhood controlled by the transformer, three LionChief engines with dedicated control paddles, four Legacy engines controlled by the orange LionChief Universal Remote or by the LionChief Bluetooth app, and one VisionLine LEGACY engine.

The VisionLine engine is the Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy from the 2023 Big Book. I currently control it with the LionChief Bluetooth app.

==> Are the Base 3 and Cab 3 sufficient to get full access to the Big Boy features, such as Blowdown Steam and quilling of the horn?

If so, how? Is the BB Bluetooth enabled? Which side of Cab 3 is used (Bluetooth or Base3)?

If not, what am I missing?

Thank you!

Michael

P.S. You can see my living room floor layout at: @StarsStringsSteam

@MIchael Purcell posted:

I am new enough to the hobby that I do not have any of: TMCC, LCS, Cab 1L, Legacy Powermaster,  Cab 2, or sensor track.

My layout has O-60 and O-72 FasTrack lines and a GW-180 transformer. I have two post-war engines from my childhood controlled by the transformer, three LionChief engines with dedicated control paddles, four Legacy engines controlled by the orange LionChief Universal Remote or by the LionChief Bluetooth app, and one VisionLine LEGACY engine.

The VisionLine engine is the Union Pacific 4014 Big Boy from the 2023 Big Book. I currently control it with the LionChief Bluetooth app.

==> Are the Base 3 and Cab 3 sufficient to get full access to the Big Boy features, such as Blowdown Steam and quilling of the horn?

YES

If so, how? Is the BB Bluetooth enabled? Which side of Cab 3 is used (Bluetooth or Base3)?

Base3 Side

If not, what am I missing?

Thank you!

Michael

P.S. You can see my living room floor layout at: @StarsStringsSteam

At the start the Base 3 and layout were powered down.

I connected a wire to the FasTrack outside rail and the Track U post on the Base 3.

The Base 3 WiFi switch was set to AP (Access Point).

I powered up the Base 3. I went through its initialization, ending with the Blue Lionel lights glowing.

I connected my iPhone to the Base 3 WiFi network.
I Opened the Cab 3 app on my iPhone and selected the Base 3 tab.
The Base 3 Lionel logo turned orange showing a connection.

The Big Boy switch settings were : PGM, BLE Off, all the smoke switches Off.

I powered up the layout. The BB Engine Number (4014) lit up.

On Cab 3 I pressed the ENG button and got the engine panel.

I entered "4014" and pressed Set.

The Base 3 lowest status light flickered red.

The Cab 3 app opened a window with the message:

Setting ID Address
Failed to set Id Address to 4014
Return code: 2 - No reply from loco

Of everything I did above, what was correct and what was wrong?

Thank you.

@MIchael Purcell posted:

At the start the Base 3 and layout were powered down.

I connected a wire to the FasTrack outside rail and the Track U post on the Base 3.

The Base 3 WiFi switch was set to AP (Access Point).

I powered up the Base 3. I went through its initialization, ending with the Blue Lionel lights glowing.

I connected my iPhone to the Base 3 WiFi network.
I Opened the Cab 3 app on my iPhone and selected the Base 3 tab.
The Base 3 Lionel logo turned orange showing a connection.

The Big Boy switch settings were : PGM, BLE Off, all the smoke switches Off.

I powered up the layout. The BB Engine Number (4014) lit up.

On Cab 3 I pressed the ENG button and got the engine panel.

I entered "4014" and pressed Set.

The Base 3 lowest status light flickered red.

The Cab 3 app opened a window with the message:

Setting ID Address
Failed to set Id Address to 4014
Return code: 2 - No reply from loco

Of everything I did above, what was correct and what was wrong?

Thank you.

See what happens when you add it as a 2-digit engine just for giggles.

Help! I finally connected my LCS modules to the Base3 and all ACM2 accessories and BPC2 power blocks operate normally.  However, my 14 Dz-2500 switches connected to the three CSM2 with Break-out boards will not respond whenever I start a new run session. Whenever I select and  throw a configured switch, the LCS modules lights illuminate to show the command is being sent but the switches do not move. So, I have to reprogram the switches again. I have read the Lionel Control's  website and watched Sean's Train Depot video for reference to verify that my procedures were correct.  When reconnected to the CAB2 base,  all CSM2 modules, switches and programed routes operate perfectly after power interuptions. Since I have not seen comments on this issue, I know I'm missing something.

Entering a two digit number worked! When I entered the number and pressed Set, the BB blew its horn and all its normal rail sounds came on. I switched it back to RUN mode. It then responded to the operating commands (crew talk, moving, etc.)

I turned everything off, then back on. When I entered the number and pressed the "Enter" key the Cab 3 app found the BB and I was able to control it as before. Now I need to learn all the Legacy commands in the Cab 3.

Thank you!

@MIchael Purcell posted:

Entering a two digit number worked! When I entered the number and pressed Set, the BB blew its horn and all its normal rail sounds came on. I switched it back to RUN mode. It then responded to the operating commands (crew talk, moving, etc.)

I turned everything off, then back on. When I entered the number and pressed the "Enter" key the Cab 3 app found the BB and I was able to control it as before. Now I need to learn all the Legacy commands in the Cab 3.

Your Big Boy probably doesn't support 4 digit addresses.

@rplst8 posted:

Your Big Boy probably doesn't support 4 digit addresses.

If it's the VL Big Boy from 2023 it should.

@rplst8 posted:

Your Big Boy probably doesn't support 4 digit addresses.

It's probably not a 2023 VL BB. Wasn't it made before that also in 2018, the first year with the depleting coal load? I think 4 digit addressing began in the 2022 catalog. Is this a brand new 2018, never programed?

To be clear, this Big Boy is sku 2331250, the oil burning version in the 2023 Big Book pg 8.

@MIchael Purcell posted:

To be clear, this Big Boy is sku 2331250, the oil burning version in the 2023 Big Book pg 8.

Yep.  That's what you indicated earlier so that's what I am going on.  It should have 4 digit addressing.  Perhaps @Dave Olson could offer some help on the error you are getting.  I'll quote it below.

@MIchael Purcell posted:

At the start the Base 3 and layout were powered down.

I connected a wire to the FasTrack outside rail and the Track U post on the Base 3.

The Base 3 WiFi switch was set to AP (Access Point).

I powered up the Base 3. I went through its initialization, ending with the Blue Lionel lights glowing.

I connected my iPhone to the Base 3 WiFi network.
I Opened the Cab 3 app on my iPhone and selected the Base 3 tab.
The Base 3 Lionel logo turned orange showing a connection.

The Big Boy switch settings were : PGM, BLE Off, all the smoke switches Off.

I powered up the layout. The BB Engine Number (4014) lit up.

On Cab 3 I pressed the ENG button and got the engine panel.

I entered "4014" and pressed Set.

The Base 3 lowest status light flickered red.

The Cab 3 app opened a window with the message:

Setting ID Address
Failed to set Id Address to 4014
Return code: 2 - No reply from loco

Of everything I did above, what was correct and what was wrong?

Thank you.

I don't see any issue with your procedure from what you described.