I found the SER2 on Amazon for $60 with free shipping on Prime and they did charge the TN sales tax of almost 10%, so about $66. Actually they are out of the SER2 on the usual dealer websites. Didn't think it was a complicated thing. But turns out it is. So the recommendation is get the DB9 null with a cable for a little adjustment play and so I will. There are several on Amazon.
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:Yes but the external antenna is for connection to the CAB-2 remote. The WIFI antenna is internal.
Thank you for the information. The G&O is an outdoor layout. It appears that we would need to setup some form of outdoor WIFI system to use the Base3. I think that we will wait until our Legacy Base dies or until the Base3 issues are worked out before we go this route. NH Joe
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:You mean female to male change plug?
So the SER2 and the TMCC BASE both have female plugs and the Null Modem cable will have a male on one end and a female on the other. A male to male gender changer will change the female plug on the cable to male. The adaptor will have male pins on both ends.
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@H1000 posted:So the SER2 and the TMCC BASE both have female plugs and the Null Modem cable will have a male on one end and a female on the other. A male to male gender changer will change the female plug on the cab to male.
Why would you want to spend more money on a gender changer when all you need is two male plugs and three wires? Less than a buck if you look around.
Pete
@Norton posted:Why would you want to spend more money on a gender changer when all you need is two male plugs and three wires? Less than a buck if you look around.
Pete
I don't disagree but male-to-male DB9 null modem cables are not standard (our local shop didn't have that in stock) but common m/f Null cables and DB9 gender changers are pretty easy to come by. There are plenty of ways to "skin a Cat" here, pick whichever is easiest or cheapest... I'm sure the cat won't like it either way.
Here is the cable from amazon, $9.
DTech DB9 RS232 Serial Cable Male to Male Null Modem Cord Full Handshaking 7 Wire Crossover for Data Communication (5 Feet, Black)
@Reading RR posted:Here is the cable from amazon, $9.
DTech DB9 RS232 Serial Cable Male to Male Null Modem Cord Full Handshaking 7 Wire Crossover for Data Communication (5 Feet, Black)
Thanks very much. That made it easier and I'm sure it's the right thing so I ordered it. It wasn't expensive. Soon I'll have my CAB-1 connected to my Base-3 and I'll probably never use it but it will be there just in case.
I am happy to report that with the help of Tracker John and others, the Command base and Cab1 are now working with the Base 3. The cable listed above did the trick. If any other clubs need to use their old Cab1's use the cable listed above.
Has anyone tried using different iOS based controllers with the new Base 3 app? I've been using my phone to learn the "features and quirks" of the new CAB3 app. For those who haven't checked it out, Sean's Train Depot has 4-5 (so far) in-depth videos that have helped me a lot as I navigate through the app. All was going reasonably well, and I thought I'd try the app on my iPad mini so that I'd have a bit more screen space to do some of the swipe gestures. Since the Base 3 is connected to my home network, I was able to connect the iPad to the Base 3 (green waves) just fine. But, WAIT! Where are all of my locomotives and the lash-ups that I re-built?? NOTHING is there! I disconnected, re-connected. I did hard restart of my iPad, all to no avail. I'm able to connect to the base, but when I swipe up to get the base details, nothing shows there either... Yet the iPad is connected! I was under the impression that all of the engine and train location is maintained on the Base 3, like it was in the Base 2. I realize any pictures that you take of your locomotives will need to reside on the device that you're using for the app, and that's fine. I just am concerned / confused about where my engines and trains are! And yes, I did go back to try on my iPhone, and that reconnects and is fine. Anyone else who has experienced this, or better yet, has gotten it to work, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
@Pennsy Johnnie posted:Has anyone tried using different iOS based controllers with the new Base 3 app? I've been using my phone to learn the "features and quirks" of the new CAB3 app. For those who haven't checked it out, Sean's Train Depot has 4-5 (so far) in-depth videos that have helped me a lot as I navigate through the app. All was going reasonably well, and I thought I'd try the app on my iPad mini so that I'd have a bit more screen space to do some of the swipe gestures. Since the Base 3 is connected to my home network, I was able to connect the iPad to the Base 3 (green waves) just fine. But, WAIT! Where are all of my locomotives and the lash-ups that I re-built?? NOTHING is there! I disconnected, re-connected. I did hard restart of my iPad, all to no avail. I'm able to connect to the base, but when I swipe up to get the base details, nothing shows there either... Yet the iPad is connected! I was under the impression that all of the engine and train location is maintained on the Base 3, like it was in the Base 2. I realize any pictures that you take of your locomotives will need to reside on the device that you're using for the app, and that's fine. I just am concerned / confused about where my engines and trains are! And yes, I did go back to try on my iPhone, and that reconnects and is fine. Anyone else who has experienced this, or better yet, has gotten it to work, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
I have an iPad Pro I can try that on and see if it is the same. But yes, the data (minus the pictures) is in the base3.
I'll let you know what mine does.
@Pennsy Johnnie posted:Has anyone tried using different iOS based controllers with the new Base 3 app? I've been using my phone to learn the "features and quirks" of the new CAB3 app. For those who haven't checked it out, Sean's Train Depot has 4-5 (so far) in-depth videos that have helped me a lot as I navigate through the app. All was going reasonably well, and I thought I'd try the app on my iPad mini so that I'd have a bit more screen space to do some of the swipe gestures. Since the Base 3 is connected to my home network, I was able to connect the iPad to the Base 3 (green waves) just fine. But, WAIT! Where are all of my locomotives and the lash-ups that I re-built?? NOTHING is there! I disconnected, re-connected. I did hard restart of my iPad, all to no avail. I'm able to connect to the base, but when I swipe up to get the base details, nothing shows there either... Yet the iPad is connected! I was under the impression that all of the engine and train location is maintained on the Base 3, like it was in the Base 2. I realize any pictures that you take of your locomotives will need to reside on the device that you're using for the app, and that's fine. I just am concerned / confused about where my engines and trains are! And yes, I did go back to try on my iPhone, and that reconnects and is fine. Anyone else who has experienced this, or better yet, has gotten it to work, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
So, the CAB3 app on the iPad was a little glitchy. When I first opened it, it connected, and I saw my engine I last ran. I clicked on ACC button and then opened the roster, and all my accessories came up (minus the pictures). But when I went to SW and then roster, my switches did come up but then the Back button was not active to get back. Cancel wouldn't work either, so I had to close it and re-open it.
It seems like a refresh issue.
Then I went to Eng and nothing showed. Then I went back to ACC and back to ENG and they showed. I also noticed it was a lot slower refreshing screens.
So, as you know Apps can be optimized for phones or tablets or both or only one or the other. This app looks like it is designed for the phone, as you can see when you open it on your iPad it does not fill the screen unless you tap the expand arrow. That means its optimized for a phone, not tablet. My phone does not have these issues, and the app is super-fast running in the phone. It could be display issues if you expand it to fill the screen. Try it in the smaller view on the iPad just to test.
Your data is all there in the base, just seems like the iPad has some display/refresh issues with the app. That's my guess. Report it to Lionel. TalktoUs@lionel.com
@Sean's Train Depot posted:So, the CAB3 app on the iPad was a little glitchy. When I first opened it, it connected, and I saw my engine I last ran. I clicked on ACC button and then opened the roster, and all my accessories came up (minus the pictures). But when I went to SW and then roster, my switches did come up but then the Back button was not active to get back. Cancel wouldn't work either, so I had to close it and re-open it.
It seems like a refresh issue.
Then I went to Eng and nothing showed. Then I went back to ACC and back to ENG and they showed. I also noticed it was a lot slower refreshing screens.
So, as you know Apps can be optimized for phones or tablets or both or only one or the other. This app looks like it is designed for the phone, as you can see when you open it on your iPad it does not fill the screen unless you tap the expand arrow. That means its optimized for a phone, not tablet. My phone does not have these issues, and the app is super-fast running in the phone. It could be display issues if you expand it to fill the screen. Try it in the smaller view on the iPad just to test.
Your data is all there in the base, just seems like the iPad has some display/refresh issues with the app. That's my guess. Report it to Lionel. TalktoUs@lionel.com
My iPad seems to respond well. I guess mileage may vary. I've been using it probably 50/50 with my phone. So far I feel that it has been compatible. I'll keep testing.
@MartyE posted:My iPad seems to respond well. I guess mileage may vary. I've been using it probably 50/50 with my phone. So far I feel that it has been compatible. I'll keep testing.
I wonder if it could also be the model/size iPad you are using. Mine is the largest Pro model. A smaller one is closer to a phone size, and I wonder if display issues don't happen because of it. If the app was optimized for the iPad, it would automatically fill the entire screen on launch. Just because you can download an app for on an iPad does not mean it was made for it. There is a difference.
But it is not an issue with the Base3 and nothing is actually lost, because when I flipped back and forth a few times then rosters reappeared.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I wonder if it could also be the model/size iPad you are using. Mine is the largest Pro model. A smaller one is closer to a phone size, and I wonder if display issues don't happen because of it. If the app was optimized for the iPad, it would automatically fill the entire screen on launch. Just because you can download an app for on an iPad does not mean it was made for it. There is a difference.
But it is not an issue with the Base3 and nothing is actually lost, because when I flipped back and forth a few times then rosters reappeared.
Most likely the size. When I spoke to Dave he did say it was optimized for a phone. I just didn't want to use it and wanted a bigger screen which incidentally helped me find the best place to swipe up and down. If I see any odd side effects I'll report them.
@BradFish1 posted:I can't get more than 1 ring out of the bell on CAB3. Has anyone else had this experience or am I doing something wrong.
Brad, you need to swipe up on the bell, and hold it there for a few seconds. Then the bell will continuously ring until you repeat the process. Similar to whistle, but you need to hold it for a second. Also, be sure that you are using the entire surface of your phone iPad when you use the bell and whistle. I wasn’t able to get the full (grade crossing) blast until I did that, but my IR tracks were still doing it, so I knew I was doing something wrong.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I wonder if it could also be the model/size iPad you are using. Mine is the largest Pro model. A smaller one is closer to a phone size, and I wonder if display issues don't happen because of it. If the app was optimized for the iPad, it would automatically fill the entire screen on launch. Just because you can download an app for on an iPad does not mean it was made for it. There is a difference.
But it is not an issue with the Base3 and nothing is actually lost, because when I flipped back and forth a few times then rosters reappeared.
Really appreciate all of the follow up, and Sean, thanks for the incredible video series as well. You’ve taken over the TV at our home, and my wife feels like you’re my new best friend. 
. Tried the iPad after restarting the base, and it worked. Then tried the phone and it didn’t… Until I closed out the app and reopened. Definitely a better experience on the phone, since as you indicated, the app isn’t really designed for an iPad. I also noticed that in your videos, your phone never seemed to lose connection with BASE3. Mine will hold only until the phone goes to sleep, then I need to click over on Bluetooth tab, then back to WiFi for it to connect. That’s a bit annoying. I’m thinking of trying Ad-Hoc mode instead of joining the home network, although my mesh system blasts the entire home with coverage, so not sure that will help. If I could find an older iPhone Plus, I’d buy it just to use as a dedicated controller, and set to ad-hoc. The larger screen may be a better experience, without going the iPad route.
@Pennsy Johnnie posted:Mine will hold only until the phone goes to sleep, then I need to click over on Bluetooth tab, then back to WiFi for it to connect.
Tap the little WiFi symbol on the Base3 side and it should reconnect.
@Pennsy Johnnie posted:Really appreciate all of the follow up, and Sean, thanks for the incredible video series as well. You’ve taken over the TV at our home, and my wife feels like you’re my new best friend.
No mine disconnects also when the lock screen kicks in. I just unlock and have to reconnect. That is the most annoying part of it. When you run trains, you may not send any commands for 5 min, 10 min, who knows and your phone locks in the mean time and then you have to reconnect. Thats something that needs to be revised for sure.
Here is my iPad 5 mini. Like I said I haven't noticed any issues and the MTH, LCS, HighRail, and Cab3 App all work well on it.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:No mine disconnects also when the lock screen kicks in. I just unlock and have to reconnect. That is the most annoying part of it. When you run trains, you may not send any commands for 5 min, 10 min, who knows and your phone locks in the mean time and then you have to reconnect. Thats something that needs to be revised for sure.
I'm not sure any of my apps, when the phone goes to sleep, stay connected. I'll have to try it. I know my home cameras and such reconnect. LCS needs to reconnect. Not sure about MTH. I only have an operational explorer to try it with. I don't recall if I had to reconnect when the phone wakes up or not. I can try that as well when I get home.
@MartyE posted:I'm not sure any of my apps, when the phone goes to sleep, stay connected. I'll have to try it. I know my home cameras and such reconnect. LCS needs to reconnect. Not sure about MTH. I only have an operational explorer to try it with. I don't recall if I had to reconnect when the phone wakes up or not. I can try that as well when I get home.
Figured out the work around for that! I just set my iPhone Lock Screen for 5mins instead of the 30 secs that it was set for. If you’re not doing something within 5mins when running trains, you’re asleep at the throttle. You just need to remember to click off the screen (large button) on iPhone when you’re done using it (for other things) so that you’re not needlessly draining the battery. Took care of the issue though!
@MartyE posted:Tap the little WiFi symbol on the Base3 side and it should reconnect.
Thanks Marty! I was clicking on the Base3 tab, but not directly on the WiFi symbol. As soon as I tried that, it worked! Together with setting the lock time screen longer, I think we may be getting closer to “bright” on the WiFi.
OK so I tried the MTH App and when the phone woke up it automatically connected again. It wasn't connected though when it woke up and took approximately 5 seconds to reconnect. Lionel could probably implement the same thing.
As a newcomer to this hobby (16 months) who paid $1,100 for a used #990 Legacy system and over $250 for a LCS DB9 Base to PDI Cable, I'm glad to see that Lionel has combined these with WiFi, replaced the DB9 with USB and ditched the external power supply.
I'm not sure why it took this long but it's clear that they bungled (being diplomatic) the WiFi implementation:
- WPS didn't work even after multiple tries.
- Manual configuration doesn't work because it hardcodes a base IP address that doesn't match my router and can't be edited. Static IP address didn't work.
- AP mode worked for a short while but now I get this message when clicking the WiFi logo on the app:
The Local Network Privacy permissions are correctly set:
I have 50-plus devices connected to my WiFi (smart home, telescope mount, cameras, etc...) all of which worked correctly out of the box.
Is there a way to factory reset the Base 3?
Ali
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WPS was a shaky attempt to simplify connecting devices to WiFi. I’ve never had over 50% success rate, so didn’t even bother to try. There are multiple steps involved with connecting to home network without WPS, and I was missing the “Get” step, and was experiencing the same issue. Once I re-read (printed) documentation and followed it carefully, the Bast 3 connected and I was able to give it an IP address within my subnet range. The good news is that you still have a CAB 2 controller!
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Pennsy,
I did use "Get" but it didn't seem to make a difference. Does anything appear in the status section when you click "Get"?
Right now I can't even get in using AP mode; trying to find out if there's a way to reset the Base 3!
Ali
@Ali Maleki posted:Pennsy,
I did use "Get" but it didn't seem to make a difference. Does anything appear in the status section when you click "Get"?
Right now I can't even get in using AP mode; trying to find out if there's a way to reset the Base 3!
Ali
Ali……..it took me more than a few tries to get it hooked up to my home WiFi via the App. However, after each unsuccessful try, when I flipped back to Access Point, it occasionally wouldn’t re-connect to the App……so, I just cycled the Base 3 to off and back on……..and, Access Point would connect again easily.
I have no explanation except that being an electrical and computer moron, turning it OFF cleared out all the evil spirits……..
Don’t be discouraged, you will get it eventually…….and, once you do, you will love it!
Peter
I hooked the CAB 1 up to the Base 3 with the above mentioned LCS Serial Converter 2 (SER2) and the needed cables as mentioned above and it fired right up and I was running trains with it right away. One thing about my CAB 1 base is, it is defective. It has a weak radio and in the days before CAB 2, I wondered why I lost control or responsiveness on the other side of the layout. Connecting it though the Y serial cable to the CAB 2 solved the problem and I used it as a guest controller. Now using the LCS Serial Converter 2 (SER2) and serial DTech DB9 RS232 Serial Cable Male to Male Null Modem Cord Full Handshaking 7 Wire Crossover and a PDI cable to Base 3, it's back in use. I was able to get it connected for about $80 on Amazon.
Peter,
I managed to get it connected using AP mode. For now, I'm going to use it with Cab2 remote and not worry about WiFi until they improve the Cab3 app!
Ali
@Sean's Train Depot posted:No mine disconnects also when the lock screen kicks in. I just unlock and have to reconnect. That is the most annoying part of it. When you run trains, you may not send any commands for 5 min, 10 min, who knows and your phone locks in the mean time and then you have to reconnect. Thats something that needs to be revised for sure.
Even when I set my phone for its longest delay it would still time out. And then I'm unconnected and have to reconnect to regain control of my trains. And this goes tio the shortcomings of using a smart phone to control model trains. It's not really designed to control model trains.
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:Even when I set my phone for its longest delay it would still time out. And then I'm unconnected and have to reconnect to regain control of my trains. And this goes tio the shortcomings of using a smart phone to control model trains. It's not really designed to control model trains.
I think a needed change to the CAB3 app is an option to keep the phone from sleeping so you don't keep losing the connection. What I don't understand is, other applications manage to communicate with WiFi with the phone blanked, so what's different about the CAB3 app?
@Dave 69 GTEL posted:Even when I set my phone for its longest delay it would still time out. And then I'm unconnected and have to reconnect to regain control of my trains. And this goes tio the shortcomings of using a smart phone to control model trains. It's not really designed to control model trains.
You can actually set the Lock Screen timeout to “Never” and just click on the side button when you’re through with it and want it to lock. I chose 5mins (longest automatic time-out) but you could certainly select “Never” to solve the issue. 
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@Pennsy Johnnie posted:You can actually set the Lock Screen timeout to “Never” and just click on the side button when you’re through with it and want it to lock. I chose 5mins (longest automatic time-out) but you could certainly select “Never” to solve the issue.
The proper solution is to do this in the CAB3 application so you don't have to remember to go back and reconfigure your phone each time you use the app.
Totally agree! I just didn’t want someone thinking they couldn’t trust the app to not shut off. Lionel needs to take care of some of the other well documented issues (i.e. train brake, Aux 2 sticking, Aux 1 dialog not working) too, and although not allowing the phone to sleep while app is open seems an easy one, it may not be at the top of their priority list. I keep watching and waiting for the first update. 🤞
@Pennsy Johnnie posted:although not allowing the phone to sleep while app is open seems an easy one, it may not be at the top of their priority list.
I don't understand how this was missed in the early testing! You have to wonder what kind of extended testing really took place. 
Wouldn't someone running more than a few minutes notice that the app disconnected when the screen blanked?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I don't understand how this was missed in the early testing! You have to wonder what kind of extended testing really took place.
From what I think I remember hearing, Dave Olsen said that they are outsourcing the development of the cab3 app to the same group of people, which I believe is in the single digits, that developed the LionChief app for them previously.
it’s no wonder why the app isn’t very polished and they are having such a hard time getting things done in a timely manner. they’re having to communicate everything to an entirely separate entity out of house. And to add to your comment about play testing, what are the odds, the developers know anything about the products or utilities they’re working with? The best apps are made by developers with real world experience that understand the target audience.
The Cab3 app is clearly a work in process, but I am happy Lionel released it as-is and not delay it further. As apps go, this is a very ambitious effort and expecting perfection upon first release isn't reasonable for a specialized control system for a tiny market. It is clearly developing into a very capable control system and will only get better over time. There's really no limit to what could be done with the Cab3.
The downside is that it will be impossible to replicate cab3 with a dedicated controller -- any hardwired controller is going to be an exercise in compromise going forward. Such is the power of software based control systems these days. Anyway, it's hard to criticize Lionel for taking the path they are w.r.t. train control systems, but I still hope they release some sort of cab2 replacement in the future -- I refuse to pay $2000 CAD for a cab2 on the used market that you can't get parts for any more. The high prices for cab2's on the used market in itself suggests there's a market for a fairly-full-featured dedicated remote.
@Garfield Irwin posted:The downside is that it will be impossible to replicate cab3 with a dedicated controller -- any hardwired controller is going to be an exercise in compromise going forward. Such is the power of software based control systems these days. Anyway, it's hard to criticize Lionel for taking the path they are w.r.t. train control systems, but I still hope they release some sort of cab2 replacement in the future -- I refuse to pay $2000 CAD for a cab2 on the used market that you can't get parts for any more. The high prices for cab2's on the used market in itself suggests there's a market for a fairly-full-featured dedicated remote.
The CAB3 is trying to replicate what the CAB2 has been doing for the past 20 years. The CAB2 was a lot more stable when it was released. Lionel will have a constant up hill battle maintaining the CAB3 app. On the surface, apps always appear as the better solution but in reality they are not. I work in software development. My office also wanted to build an app for our complex software. It quickly became a maintenance nightmare. The app is constantly affected by new phones on the market with new hardware and new OSs being released by Google and Apple. Not to mention all the older phones that people still use. Then there is the issue of the phone being a multi purpose device. What happens when you get a call/text/notification? They all interrupt the app. Those interruptions can cause accidents on your layout since the app is being paused by the phone so it can display the various notifications. And when that derailment/collision breaks your equipment because the app got interrupted? Now you have to hope the parts are still available as Lionel does not stock any electronics after 10 years.
Will Lionel get the app stable and fully functional? Yes, given enough time I think it will get there. But there will be constant updates to keep it functioning due to all the constant changes in the platform. After development was completed of the CAB2, how many changes did Lionel have to make in 20 years? They are only up to revision 1.7. I bet Lionel has not spent much time on the CAB2 since it was released. You cannot say the same for the CAB3. The updates will be constant which will be a drain on their resources to maintain the app. I wish Lionel well with the CAB3 but I hope they realize sooner rather than later, that a physical controller is the better option and release one in the near future. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it and be happy Lionel got the CAB3 to be a winner. Based on my 25+ years of software experience I don't see it.
My concern is indeed the long term platform changes and/or the company losing interest in the product. Look at the LCS software, it hasn't been updated for eight years!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:My concern is indeed the long term platform changes and/or the company losing interest in the product. Look at the LCS software, it hasn't been updated for eight years!
I really wanted an andriod version of the lcs app since I am not an apple person. It would have enhanced the use of my lcs devices. Because they never did an andriod version, I never added any of the switch monitoring components since I couldn't use it. LCS is an underrated part of the legacy system. It has a lot of untouched potential.
