lionel base3 and chip shortage

Marty, Re: "The Kill Everything" button on the iCab app requires you push and hold it for 3 seconds before it will HALT. "

My observation of kids using apps at shows is that some will lean on a button icon until they observe some visible/audible action (or their attention span expires).  Three seconds of pressing is very common.  We exceed 3 seconds pressing on the quilling whistle.  Kids will experiment with every button on a screen, and it's fun (for them) to do something that causes the show operators to come over and restart the train.

The best app for letting the kids experiment is the LionChief Bluetooth app.  Kids learn it quickly and always seem walk up the iPad and get the train going on their own.  The control icons are recognizable to novice users.  Just enough to run the train.  I occasionally have to come over to reconnect the engine.  (But why they choose to run the train in reverse more than half the time after exercising the reverse icon remains a mystery).

Contrast the LionChief app to the complexity of the iCab app (which mimics the Cab2) where half the icons require operator training to recognize the icon and understand how it works.  We can use a 101-level app in addition to the full capability app.

"You can already do this with a BASE2, LCS-WiFi & CAB3 app."

Yes, but newer hobbyists likely won't have a Legacy base or cab-1L base, so the Base 3 can be the main approach to fulfill this function.  I'm not suggesting that those using Legacy for many years are going to start buying lots of LionChief locos.   Rather I am suggesting that those buying Lionel LionChief sets(the largest selling three O gauge product by far) now and in the future may at some point want a single device that integrates their original LionChief equipment with older LionChief +, TMCC and newer Legacy/Bluetooth locos so that all can be operated via one handheld device.  They can use the Base 3 when it finally arrives with the cab-1L if it is still being made, a used cab-2 if they can find it for a reasonable price, or the cab 3 app that is forthcoming to do this.

A TMCC or Legacy base cannot do this, which isn't a big deal for some, but may be for others.  Personally I use the Universal Remote more than my cab-1, cab-1L or cab-2.  Then again, I've only had the last two devices for about a year, when I quickly acquired them after Lionel announced their future plans.  I'm lazy, so I'm guessing the Universal Remote will see the most use, with the cab-1L/cab-2 primarily used for older TMCC and Legacy locos that don't respond to the Universal Remote.

@Tracker John posted:

Marty, Re: "The Kill Everything" button on the iCab app requires you push and hold it for 3 seconds before it will HALT. "

My comment was more geared to your “fat fingers “ observation.

I agree it shouldn’t be available to kids which is why I’d remove it from a screen geared towards them if, like you said, could be customized.

Now it's showing for delivery date on lionelstore.com 2-15-2024

Dave Olson said at the Lionel Seminar today at the LCCA convention in Concord, NC that the Base 3 was undergoing testing by the FCC.  He thanked the NJ HiRailers and the Chicagoland Lionel Railroad Club for their help in beta testing.  He hoped it would be here in December but said it could slip in to January or February next year.  

Neal Jeter

@Lionlman posted:

Dave Olson said at the Lionel Seminar today at the LCCA convention in Concord, NC that the Base 3 was undergoing testing by the FCC.  He thanked the NJ HiRailers and the Chicagoland Lionel Railroad Club for their help in beta testing.  He hoped it would be here in December but said it could slip in to January or February next year.  

Neal Jeter

Lionel's website already says February 2024.

@Lionlman posted:

He hoped it would be here in December but said it could slip in to January or February next year.  

Neal Jeter

Which means they are hoping to deliver by Christmas 2024.

This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?

@Don Beck, you should be proud that Lionel is producing this new base, it’s going to be good quality, reliable and will work with the Cab 1L, Cab 2 and our I-Phones. It’s going through quality control, and will have more signal range than their previous bases. It’s going to be Worth the Wait. I’ve enjoyed all of Lionel’s Command Control Systems, this will be the best yet. I do wish they would make a new Cab 3 Hand Remote, but that’s not in their plans. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Don Beck posted:

This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?

So I'm assuming from your post that you're an electrical engineer and familiar with designing consumer complements? No?  What a surprise!  Dave worked very dilligently at our club and made a major change (external attenna) after our testing.  I for one am a big fan!

It's obvious that there have been some challenges.  Look at MTH's new TIU/WiFi unit.  How long has that been hanging out there.  With everything that has happened in the past few years and the resulting interruptions in supply chains, we here at work are just starting to see items ship almost normal again, I'm willing to give some slack.  There are always people that will come here and throw turds because that's all they can do.  They must be a joy to be around.

Menards isn't worried about certifying their radio remote control system and keep on shipping them. All those Beta units- not one is or has been FCC properly certified.

@Lionlman posted:

Dave Olson said at the Lionel Seminar today at the LCCA convention in Concord, NC that the Base 3 was undergoing testing by the FCC.

Edit: You might misakenly read that and think I'm advocating not FCC radio licensing. No, I'm saying it's just complete far end of the spectrum- one competitor slaps BETA on the box, still mass produces something like 600 at a time, sells them to the public.

Meanwhile- again, exact opposite end of the spectrum, Lionel wants you and dealers to commit to preorders, for something they put in a catalog, and then years later still just now getting around to FCC testing.

IMO- BOTH are wrong. Lionel is selling something but not shipping it yet and ever delayed, that they still haven't finished. Menards is selling and shipping something also not finished.

Are we sure Menard's electronics are not FCC approved?  Perhaps they are just lacking the sticker and the manufacturer of the off the shelf equipment had them FCC certified?  The other possibility is that the output is so low that it doesn't require FCC certification.  Just speaking theoretically here, with no real knowledge .

"This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?"

Let's wait and see.  Perhaps the Girl's Train was worse? .

@Landsteiner posted:

"This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?"

Let's wait and see.  Perhaps the Girl's Train was worse? .

LMAO.  Good one Landsteiner.

@Landsteiner posted:

"This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?"

Let's wait and see.  Perhaps the Girl's Train was worse? .

I guess we're all forgetting "Mega Tracks".

@Don Beck posted:

This device will go down in Lionel history as the biggest boondoggle it has even had.  Disaster. And for what?

Don,

I hear ya, but ...

I think your crystal ball is tuned to the wrong frequency.  The sky isn't falling, and the world is not ending, at least not any time soon.

I'm thankful that, for the most part, we as forumites seem to have enough common sense not to follow the first lemming off the cliff.

BTW, and in all reality I think that the Electronic Set of the late 1940's (No. 4110WS) was far worse since it got exactly nowhere, because it didn't really work -- to spot that we didn't back to, and finally and successfully beyond, for almost 50 more years after its release.

Follow this link for more on that fiasco:

     Lionel Electronic Set 4110WS (12/10/15) | Bandomnjr

In my opinion it was truly "the biggest boondoggle" Lionel has ever had.

As for today, take a deep breath, calm down, and please have your crystal ball serviced by a qualified service technician.  You've apparently gone too many miles between oil changes.

Mike

If it's going to be further delayed, I wonder why they don't resume production of the Cab 2 / Base 2 #990 sets until Base 3 has been perfected. Based on sales here and elsewhere, there clearly is demand for them. For someone just starting out in the hobby, it must be pretty frustrating to spend a grand or more on a Legacy-equipped loco and have no control system for it, or buy a used Cab 2, the price of which is likely as high as the loco. To me, it's sort of like a car manufacturer selling new cars but not the keys to them.

"why they don't resume production of the Cab 2 / Base 2 #990 sets until Base 3 has been perfected"

We have been told that it's because some parts for the cab2 are simply no longer available, including the screen.

All new Lionel locomotives can be controlled by the universal remote and the Lionel app, so control systems, including a simple remote are available, and have been for several years.  Admittedly, a smart device isn't everyone's cup of tea, but you can control everything the loco is capable of from the app, and all important basic functions from the universal remote.

I'm a remote man and I will always be. I do not like phones or tablets for reasons everyone here has experienced. I hope that I will be able to get my Cab 2 remotes repaired when they break (one already has) because I won't use a phone.

@Jerryrails posted:

I hope that I will be able to get my Cab 2 remotes repaired when the break (one already has) because I won't use a phone.

Send the broken one back to Lionel while they're still fixing them!

If they have / can get the components to fix them, I wonder why they can't build new ones.

@BlueComet400 posted:

If they have / can get the components to fix them, I wonder why they can't build new ones.

They most likely have an inventory of parts. This is why if you have one that needs fixed you do it sooner than later.  They said when the parts dry up so do the repairs.

@BlueComet400 posted:

If they have / can get the components to fix them, I wonder why they can't build new ones.

they probably bought up all of the remaining surplus obsolete parts to stockpile for repairs.

@BlueComet400 posted:

If they have / can get the components to fix them, I wonder why they can't build new ones.

They can no longer get enough of them.  Even repair will come to a stop at some point, which is why John is urging folks to send their broken ones in for service immediately.

This of course begs the question: "Why didn't they start on a replacement for Cab-2/Base-2 (or MTH with TIU's and handhelds for that matter) much earlier, realizing that obsolescence and shortages of parts was coming?"

A profound change in global political and business dynamics and the appearance of the pandemic combined to spring the component shortage on us in many, many industries.  The timing was a complete surprise to nearly everyone and could not be  predicted by the average component purchaser.

Mike

The biggest reason for the Base3 is that Lionel will no longer have to update or support software for the #990 system  let alone repair it.  Putting the burden on the consumer. I don't believe there's a shortage of LCD screens as thousands of toys and calculators still use them. Bottom line look how much money Lionel will save by doing this.

After watching Dave use the base 3 app on his phone at the Lcca Lionel seminar, I feel it will be a huge success.

@feet posted:

I don't believe there's a shortage of LCD screens as thousands of toys and calculators still use them.

It isn't a shortage. The ones used for the Cab2 are simply no longer manufactured and there are none close enough to shoehorn in. There may be thousands of other screen options, but you can't just pick one off a shelf and slap it on.

The Base3 has been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of my career, and I am proud of where it's at now. We are so excited to get it released. Once FCC testing has wrapped up, it's off to production.

I appreciate everyone's patience and excitement for this. You won't be disappointed.

@feet posted:

The biggest reason for the Base3 is that Lionel will no longer have to update or support software for the #990 system  let alone repair it.

We plan on supporting the Cab2 for a little while. We actually have yet another Cab2 code update we'll be releasing around when the Base3 ships. We also have parts to continue to offer courtesy repairs on them for now.

The world threw us for a loop the last 3 years. You can't imagine the difficulties we faced with component obsolescence, shortages, etc. But yet we've managed to deliver again and again save for a few exceptions that we're still diligently working on. The product matters to us.

Thanks for the update DAVE.

Thank you Dave, I know you all are giving the LCCA Club Members  a lot of great news, news of good things to come, We are excited about this Cab 3…. Happy Railroading Everyone

As always Dave much appreciated.  I personally am looking forward to the new technology.  I appreciate the thorough testing that you have been doing.  I'm with Larry on this one.  Excited to see the next generation.

Thank you Dave, I feel the same as Marty and Larry. I’d also be proud of such an accomplishment and bringing a remarkable technology into our model railroading future.

Gene

Thanks Dave. I hope this all works out for you and Lionel.

@MichRR714 posted:

In my mind Lionel should have just updated the Legacy system with components available today.

Trying to cram all of the Bluetooth and Lionchief support into this new unit makes me question who the target audience is?  It's certainly not me...

I also wonder how the decision to include all of this stuff in Base3 has affected the timeline getting into production.

I agree 100% but what do I know, I'm just a girl.

Personally, I prefer to run "everything" with the MTH remote.  I find that one remote is sufficient to make the layout do all that I want.

Personally, a quilling  whistle is not the end all, be all to my model train enjoyment and that seems to be the only effect I can not initiate in my setup.

If I can make assumptions from the endless posts regarding control systems over the past three years and the desires of the hobbyists posting it seems that the vast majority of O Gauge hobbyists want hand held remote control rather than phone or tablet control.  Those who already own them covet them and those who don't seem willing to pay blood money to get them.

So why can't that need be met ??  And if it is commercially impossible for Lionel, MTH, or Atlas then make the technology OPEN SOURCE.

MTH is eventually coming out with a WTIU that is phone oriented unless you can obtain an unavailable tethered remote and Lionel is eventually coming out with the Base 3 that is phone oriented as well unless you buy a Cab 1 (no Cab2).

It seems that the most reasonable answer is LionChief Plus 2.0 and a universal bluetooth remote.   Reasonably priced as well.

John

Have you ever handed a smart device with a train control app to a youngster and had them run trains on a layout? Try it some time.

@Dave Olson posted:

The world threw us for a loop the last 3 years. You can't imagine the difficulties we faced with component obsolescence, shortages, etc. But yet we've managed to deliver again and again save for a few exceptions that we're still diligently working on. The product matters to us.

Dave, I used to see the issues with component availability every few years in the aerospace business.  We'd be riding high for a couple of years and suddenly we'd hit the skids and be scrambling for parts.  We had a vast amount of space in storerooms filled with component last time buys so we could continue to ship product.  I'm sure it's no different in the model train business, so I do feel for you.  It does look like parts are loosening up now, some of the stuff I couldn't get for over a year is slowly appearing again.  Maybe we'll have a few years of plenty before the next bust!

I've had a Base 3 on order since it was announced.  Am I disappointed that I don't have it yet?  Well, maybe just a little.  But I was quite impressed with the testing done at the NJHR and CLTC club layouts.  Dave & Lionel are taking the time caused by component delays to get everything as close to "right" as possible, something we'll appreciate when UPS or the LHS delivers these units.  I'm agnostic as to control surface, and Base 3 lets us "have it our way".

Just a question for those who have participated in the testing of the Base3, is it compatible with engines that don't have bluetooth? Will I be able to use the full features of my Atlas and mid 2000's tmcc locomotives?

@seank941 posted:

Just a question for those who have participated in the testing of the Base3, is it compatible with engines that don't have bluetooth? Will I be able to use the full features of my Atlas and mid 2000's tmcc locomotives?

Yes. It is fully backwards compatible. Lionel has said that from the day it was announced. At its core, it is still TMCC.  Control of BlueTooth and other RF LC engines is one of  the "Add On" feature sets.