Lionel Diecast O27 4-4-2 questions

They are starter set engines, have proved to be reliable with a little care. No switch issues that I'm aware of. 125 seems a little high as a good used one can be found for about 50. Hope this helps.

The gear should not be an issue on those because the gear diameter is smaller than the wheel tread diameter. The old Marx "fat wheels" are a problem on Lionel switches because the gear diameter is larger than the wheel tread diameter, so they climb the guard rails.

I agree with Jim1939's comments on price. Some of those units have air whistles and that will affect pricing too. Some of the 4-4-2 versions have DC motors (like in the photo above), you want to research what you're getting to know whether it's intended for AC or DC operation. 

The Lionel 4-4-2 is a great running engine. For $125.00 at Charles Ro, you can get an entire scout set with engine, cars, track & transformer. I have also seen set breakups with the engine brand new at $65.00. Shop around.

Pat

Early in the MPC era the remaining crew at Hillside took the PW mold last used for the 2029 (2-6-4) and created a die-cast 4-4-2 Atlantic.

These engines were made through the 70's in a number of road names (C & O, RI, MILW, PRR, B & O, LL), they are pretty bullet proof with basic care, they smoke well, and most have the Mighty Sound of Steam (if the boards still function).

Price wise they can be had for under $100 if you shop wisely.

Pictured is one of the earliest, the 8142 from 1971, this particular model had a die-cast trailing truck, most others have a plastic trailing truck w/metal wheels.

I grabbed a new one from a set break up a couple of months ago for $85.00.  Runs smooth, smokes well, and has been trouble free.  

The ones made since the Dick Kughn era have come with matinence free can motors and run rather slowly and quietly, and they run through switches without problems in my experiences. They are strictly toys though, mind you, and are in no way representing a real life prototype. Since they are the most common engine in the modern era, they command maybe $50 or $70 at most in the collector market.

I consider them the best value you can get from Lionel in steam locos as long as you don't want premium features. Light, smoke, good runner, diecast, often with an air whistle, and all for less than $100.

That's the type of locomotive that started me in the hobby.  As stated, they're pretty much a normal starter set locomotive.  It's been awhile since I've run mine (which was made in the 1990's), but I wouldn't call them slow runners.  They also aren't anywhere near being scale locomotives, so it should be fine for running with your Polar Express Berkshire.

The later ones had sheet metal trailing trucks.  I'm not aware of any plastic trucks used.

The 8142 was my 1st MPC engine, and is a real good running unit.  I have 3 or 4 of them now.

As stated, they are simple engines with a low level of detail, but my 4-4-2 is one of my favorite engines.  Great if you may have some kids using the layout.  Grzyboskis has a LL 442 with air whistle tender as a set break up for $69 - how can you go wrong? 

The dockside switcher has a good reputation as well. 

You might also want to consider a "junior" hudson, they came in a number of flavors and you can get them cheap enough if you are patient.  Mine didn't like fastrack switches but I had three in a row; I haven't had a chance to try it since I swapped my track plan around but I asked on here a couple times and no one else was having issues.  The hudson jr is an 0-27 engine and will fit well with the PE.

The Docksider, Hudson jr and Berkshire jr are all good choices as well, the Mikado jr is a little pricier, but very well detailed and the smoothest running conventional 027 I have.

 As far as running slow, a lot of that has to do with what transformer you are using. Many transformers, especially post-war will ave a starting voltage in excess of 6 volts, which a locomotive like the starter set 4-4-2's, that don't have any complex electronics will jack rabbit at 6 volts.

 The much maligned Lionel CW-80 is an Excellent choice for locomotives like the 4-4-2, it has a near zero minimum voltage. Many locomotives with a reputation for being "poor slow speed runners" will run very well, with the right transformer. The early CW-80's had some issues, no doubt about it, but those have long since been resolved. The CW-80 is now a fine transformer, some people just can't get over the past.

 Another nice thing about the 4-4-2's, is they are Spur gear driven, if young ones will be using it, the 4-4-2 can  be manually pushed around the track, and will free wheel without trouble or  harm. The majority of locomotives are worm gear driven  and the drivers will lock and not roll freely.

I tend to agree that $125.00 is a pretty high price for a  4-4-2, $75-85 if it is one you like, but I wouldn't go over about $100.00 personally.

Doug

The price of a die-cast 4-4-2 may depend on the features.  Some were very bare-bones, with no sound and no handrails.  At the other end of the spectrum are the units with handrails and conventional RailSounds.  In between are units with Air Whistles and no handrails.

Older 4-4-2's have smoke units with no ON/OFF switch, some have ON/OFF switch, and some have ON/OFF switch wired through the Reverse Unit so that smoke only works when the engine is in motion.

Jon

This is really an advantage to think about if kids, particularly young ones, will be handling the loco at all.  If a child both pushes this loco down onto the track and along it, the wheels will freely turn - no problem.  Do that to a can-motor-with-worm gear loco and there is a chance either the worm or its engaged gear will lose teeth: game over.

Here is an example, in this case you also get the original box and paperwork. For a grand total of $77.89. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL...;hash=item2ec5fc423c

I have one, don't run it on my DCS layout but it has been VERY reliable, as have my previous ones. Generally fast locos, not slow speed runners. No where close to scale! Sooner or later I'd like to put TMCC in mine so I could run it. 

I'm fully satisfied with mine. I think it runs fairly smoothly and slowly.  Mine came with a special edition 2008 Pennsylvania Flyer set from Hobby Lobby, and I specifically wanted my starter set to have this engine because I liked it classic, post war-ish look. It was actually my second engine, as I already had a Conrail GP38 and Polar Express baggage car that, up until I got the set, I had no way to run.  I was initially going to assign this engine exclusively to passenger service with the PRR Flyer Passenger Expansion Pack, but as my fleet has expanded well beyond what I originally intended (naturally), it will be a mixed traffic engine... even though it is a 4-4-2.  My only concern is a buzzing sound (almost sounds more like grinding) that occurs with each rotation of the driving wheels as the engine runs.  At first, I thought it might be mechanical, but it's not present when the engine is pushed around by hand.  Other than that, no problems or complaints.

It would definitely be a good addition if your layout is going to be a classic, Christmas-themed one.

Aaron

The Lionel 4-4-2's are good little traditional engines.  I have two, an MPC-era 8304 with Pullmor motor and an LTI-era NKP 8617 with a can motor.  They're very basic, but run well and will pull a surprising amount of cars on level track.  $125 is a little high; I'd shop around.

Very reliable engines.  My club has 4 and they have ran on our Christmas display layout for two weeks at a time each year for the last 20 years.  They have had numerous wrecks and falls to the floor with little damage (the little visitors have access to them).

Thanks for all the advice and tips. I found a new one from a set break-up for $89 including shipping and a free caboose Glad I asked before paying $125... A question about the baby Berk... is that the same one that comes with the PE set?

Thanks,

Ken

The Berkshire jr, is basically the same as the PE Berk, with a different pilot, and headlight, the PE had the long pilot and visored headlight. The standard Berk jr had a much less pronounced pilot with footboards IIRC, and did not have the visor on the headlight. Most PE sets came with just the air whistle tender, some Berk jr's came with Train Sounds, while some had Rail Sounds. Some Berk jr's had TMCC also.

Doug

Best deal going would be #6-28616, nickel plate berk with railsounds.  Great engine, great sound package, and 0-27 rated.

One of these was my first engine as well. It is the one from the Union Pacific Freight Set from about 1993. In the about 20 years I have had it, it has never needed any maintenance, besides normal oil, grease, and cleaning. It has survived my childhood, and is still an engine I use on my layout when a different one breaks down. I don't think you can kill these engines, and they are good pullers with the traction tires.

I have actually seen these sets used for $80-$100. For that price, you get the engine (smoke+headlight), whistle tender, flatcar with removable tractor trailer (set also should have the truck to pull it), boxcar, tank car, searchlight car, and lighted caboose. The set also came with figure 8 track, 40w transformer, goods load (pallets, pipes, crates, etc.), and a steel bridge.

I have about a half dozen of them that came with various starter sets. All run well and I've never had any trouble with any of them. They are smooth runners and pretty much bullet proof. That's more that I can say about some of my expensive ones with all the bells and whistles.