Lionel Fastrack Command Control Switch wired to a 153 block signal

Note that some of these are not opto-isolated, so I still suggest the diode.

john,

   How do you know which are isolated, I thought the ones you posted all were?  The 2 different opto-relays that I purchased seem to have the diodes already in them, if I know what I am looking at.  Now the single opto-relays are all gone, I bought the last of them, no big deal however, just purchase the double.

Brian just so you know I bought #2 in the picture and the singles were #4, but have changed to another double now.

PCRR/Dave

Look at the pictures...the opto ones have the little 4 terminal opto chip clearly on the board, the non-opto ones don't.

Here are pictures of both...and the schematic of the non-opto. Actually the non-opto doesn't need a diode for reverse voltage protection, but looks to need one to insure that the transistor driver does not partially turn on if the +5 from the yellow wire is less than the +5 applied to Vcc for relay power. I checked a bunch of my Command Switches, and they were all between 4.9 and 5.1 Vdc...so that would be safe without a diode, but the extra 0.7 volt diode drop would be welcome to make sure the transistor is off when the yellow wire signal is +5Vdc, the green state.

trying again on the relays with optos...The optos are those two dark things on the right side of the relays.

Here are more singles...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Channel-5V-Relay-Module-Shield-for-Arduino-uno-1280-2560-ARM-PIC-AVR-DSP-/271320439592?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2bf55b28

BTW John, thanks for this great idea. I actually had some of these from an Arduino project, but never thought to apply them to the FasTrack switches. Great idea.

cjack,

   The single opto-relay you posted, I believe is the opto-relay that I purchased 4 of, ordered an addition 4 from the post you recommended also, the doubles in the prior post, I also purchased 3 of, guess I was just lucky with my choices.  Thanks much for your detail in your #2 wiring instruction, much appreciated.  One other explanation needing further detail for me, the 5V wall-wart, John talked about,  how and where do I connect it to the opto-relay for powering it, I take it I will need to either splice and run it to every opto-relay location or have a plug type wall-wart unit for every opto-relay for powering them individually.  Could I get way with using a MTH small terminal block, using it for a wall-wart power line splitter, running to numerous opto-relays.

John thanks again for your engineering knowledge on all this, great stuff.

PCRR/Dave

Thanks all.  Just a thought, do you use track power or auxillary power on your switches?  Here is what I'm going with.  I hope you all agree. 

The relay modules require 5VDC for operation.  You can obtain that by rectifying track power with a diode, capacitor, and a regulator.  You can also get it from simply chopping the connector off a regulated 5V wall wart, the ones for old phones are frequently a good choice.  The 5V goes between the VCC and GND connections on the relay module.  One wall wart will probably power a bunch of these modules.

Here are the specs on the relay itself (not easy to find, but these seem the most accurate):

• Songle SRD-05VDC-SL-C Relay
• Relay UL/CUL Rating: 10A @ 125V AC, 28V DC
• Relay CCC/TUV Raiting: 10A @ 250V AC, 30V DC
• Control high-power devices up to 10A with a simple high/low signal
• Provides isolation between the microcontroller and the device being controlled
• Screw terminals for relay connections
• 3-pin servo-style header for power/signal interface
• LED indicator provides visual feedback
• Voltage requirements: 5V DC (Relay Power), 3.3V to 5V DC (Input Signal)
• Current requirements: ~85 mA (Relay Power)
• Communication: Logic High/Low (3.3V to 5V DC)
• Dimensions: 1.57 × 1.06 × 0.71 inches (4.0 × 2.7 × 1.8 cm)
• Operating temperature: -13 to +158 °F (-25 to +70 °C)

So that says about 85ma per relay.

Safely, if you have a one amp wall wart, you could run about 11 relays on at one time.

Just make sure the wall wart is a regulated 5V type.

There are indeed connectors you can use, these are standard .1" spacing posts.

2.54mm Female Connector

John,

   Thanks again when I get this all together, some time I will post pictures.

I appreciate all your Technical help big time.

Thank you also cjack for all your help also, learned a lot from this particular thread.

Brian,

   Hope you got all this technical info so you can use your old Lionel equipment with your FasTrack switches also.  Thanks again for starting this thread.

PCRR/Dave

We look forward to seeing the signals operating.

This thread has another power supply idea...

https://ogrforum.com/t...86#28179007042095986

Those are useful, I have about a dozen in my parts box, and I occasionally use them in projects.

Here's an idea for wires with single sockets to plug into the relay modules...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25pcs-AWG-26AWG-2-54mm-Dupont-Jumper-Wire-30cm-cable-Line-1p-1p-pin-connector-/331149966158?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1a137b4e

Cjack,

   I ordered the connector socket line and stayed with John & your original opto-relays, thanks for making this so simple with providing the lines.  When all shipments have arrived, I should have this all together for next years Christmas layout.  John I have 2 of the old home cell phone power line charging units set aside for powering the opto-relays as you suggested, great idea.

PCRR/Dave

Hi Dave,

Did you ever get your switches wired up to your lights?  I'm about to dive into this and wanted to know what works.  Would love to see a pic of the final result.  Thanks,

Brian

Hi John,

I could use some of your help here.  I want to wire a simple LED light signal (red & green) to mimic my CC Fastrack switch. Your earlier note stated that you could simply wire it up from the position indication on the switch.  Since we have gone back and forth on the subject, I should not need a relay for the LED light.  I have re-read your portion on just wiring up a simple LED and cannot get it to work.  I took apart the switch (see picture) and have included the LED light I am going to use.  The signal has a green, red and black wire(with a resistor attached) but just cannot not figure out where to wire them in(See pic).  I thought I got close a couple of times but the switch would not work properly (seemed like it was power deprived). Notice the remote cable is removed.  I thought mabe I could wire up to the YRBG slots for the light to work. That's not the answer.   Perhaps some guidance from you.  New to the hobby, but want to learn. I got several hours into what I thought was simple.  Thanks.

You need a red/green 2-wire bipolar LED and a 270 ohm resistor.  Wire them between the GND and RSC LIGHTS pins on a Fastrack switch and it'll change colors with the position.  If they're reversed in sense, swap the leads to the LED.

I just did this on my bench to make sure there was no issue, works great and senses the switch position from manual, remote, or even the command from the TMCC/Legacy remote.

So the LED signal light I have will not work because it has 3 wires (Red - Green- and black with a resistor? 

Correct, you the polarity of the lamp signal reverses based on switch position, a 2-wire LED is the ticket to simply create this indicator.  You can probably kludge a 3-wire to do it, but it'll take other components and is clearly not the simple way to do the job.

John,

Do you have a link to where I can purchase the bi-polar LED Signal/Light?

LED-Switch, about 2/3 of the way down the page.  If you want 2mm or 3mm, they have them in that size as well.

 Thanks John,

I have some of those, but was hoping for the actual signals, with the bipolar lights already built in. Hopefully similar to the one in the pic I sent you.  I don't think I'm up for rebuilding/modifying the signals I have, since they are so small.  I may just go to adding some MTH or Lionel large scale semaphores with relays to the CC switches like we explored before.  Thought the LED idea was a fix for some parts of my layout.  Thanks again... if you know of bipolar signals anywhere let me know.  

I don't know of any bi-polar signals, sorry.

John and CJack,

Since I'm not a electrical engineer and this is my first attempt in adding a MTH block signal to my Fastrack switch via a Arduino compatible relay.  Here is what I encountered so far (please see pictures). I have the track powered by auxillary power, and have my wall wart ready, but stumbled on where to go next to get it to work.  Please advise if you can to help me progress.  Thanks a bunch!!!  Note the yellow wire has the diode attached (under heat shrink) coming out of the Fastrack Switch.

A simple way is with a diode and a 5VDC signal relay.  As long as the relay doesn't require more than about 10-15ma for operation, you can use that to switch any power you like at the other end.

I think this will do what you need. Since the RSC signal goes to -5 vdc instead of zero volts (which is what the Arduino is intended for), I put in a 2.2K ohm resistor to drop the extra 5 volts when the signal goes to -5 vdc. The relay will switch to the normally open contact when the voltage goes negative which is the "out" or red lamp on the switch. Assuming you want the same on the block signal.

Ok...I looked up how these work. And my mistake should have connected the com leads together. Here's a new picture...and again I don't know how much ac voltage should be on the "track power A". Sometimes these are made for around 10 or 12 vac like on conventional layouts. In that case you would need a separate accessory voltage if you are supplying 18 vac to the track for TMCC operation.

Thanks guys..... I sure do appreciate your input and can learn from this.  I will dive into this very soon..... after Easter.  Both of you have a Happy Easter.  Must spend time with family and friends now.   Brian

Hi Cjack,   Questions?

1. It looks like from your diagram that I add a 2.2k ohm resistor on the yellow line.

2. It looks like adding another wire from Com on the switch to Com? on the relay with 5V power coming from my wall wart.  Where is Com on the switch?  They are labeled differently.

3. So track power must be added (spiced in?) to the middle wire (black) which goes from the relay to the center terminal on the block signal.

4.  Since I have only 3 terminals on the block signal where do I add track com U to the block signal?

Thanks in advance..... Brian   Please advise your first name is possible.  More and more is making sense..... bare with me with the baby steps. 

Check above, modified schematic and let me know.

Com on the switch is GND or/and AUX GND...same point.

BTW, What is the part # of the block signal?

MTH/Railking - Item No. RK-1034  No 153 Block Signal

Ok, the manual for that says it's diecast. So if it has 18 volt bulbs, should be good with track voltage and wired as in the schematic above.

Chuck,

So my jumpers and wiring so far is correct in the pictures?  Thanks in advance for taking the time to work through this.    Brian

I can't tell by your picture, but if you make or made it like my latest drawing, it will work.

Chuck and John,

I will be diving into this signal again this evening.  Chuck, in your diagram I see the 2.2k OHM Resistor.  Currently, where you are suggesting placing 2.2k resistor  I have in place on the yellow line a I4004 diode.  Do I add the resistor on the relay side of the diode, or remove the diode all together and just utilize the resistor?  Please advise.  Thanks guys.  

You can leave the diode in and add the resistor to limit the current some. It would probably be ok without the resistor, but since the input to the circuit is meant to go from +5 down to 0 volts and the switch puts out +5 down to -5 volts, the resistor is added to drop the extra 5 volts.