Lionel: How about this for 2013!?!?

CSX Troy, you obviously know a good thing when you see it.

I'm sure we'll see these in S.

With NS going "Heritage Happy," Lionel aggressively improving the Flyer line and MTH buying S Helper service, nothing will surprise me anymore.

Rusty

True! Rusty, don't forget about the new NS steam program as well!!!  You would think that with Lionel's new SD70ACE, the NS heritage units would be a given, considering how popular the prototypes are.  Still, it is fun to speculate and I wonder where the ES44's could come from.

MTH has already done the ES44 in O haven't they?  MTH has done the SD70ACe also in O and HO so could S be far behind? Two versions to choose from for the NS SD70ACe in S, makes ones head spin doesn't it.

Greg

The Erie unit is also out:

Rusty

I Want to collect every one of the Heritage units...  ...I want the whole set

There's GOLD in them thar chooches!

Rusty

There's a lot of unanswered questions in my mind how MTH is going to handle the scale side, but it's been less than a week.   I imagine some questions will be answered after the dust settles a bit. 

Hopefully MTH will start talking soon to the S Gaugian, CTT, MR, the NASG and maybe even the S Scale SIG, plus start making the rounds at the Spring S Sprees, Fall S Fests and NASG conventions.

As for scale wheel steam from Lionel?  Well, I hope so.  I think it's going to depend on how well the Scale guys in general accept the diesels.  Seems like Lionel's being extra nice to the S folks.  The scale crowd is new ground for Lionel, they don't offer scale wheels for anything in O yet.

Rusty

Agreed! I am hoping that both Lionel and MTH make an appearance at the NASG 2012 national convention in Chattanooga.  It would be nice to get a chance to talk with reps from both firms on a face-to-face basis.

As far as scale wheeled steam, while I personally would like to see it, I'm not sure that the scale crowd will embrace die cast models in numbers enough to entice producing both a scale and Hi-rail version, especially now that there is another manufacturer in the mix.  If they do, I would think that MTH has the advantage due to their electronics already supporting DCC.  

I also have to say, how nice it is to have this problem to discuss!!

Rusty,

I hope so.  Currently, I think the biggest question in the minds of both Lionel and MTH is: "how much product will the S scale market support"?  Those engines look good, I just wonder if the guys that like River Rasin  and Omnicon steamers with added details will buy enough die cast steamers  to justify both Lionel and MTH making scale wheeled versions on a long term basis.  For me, as a repentant 3 railer, I tend to collect as-well-as run and I am looking forward to living up to my forum signature .   It will be interesting to see how this plays out and if Lionel or MTH does make them, I would be very pleased as it would let me run everything that I have on the same code of rail.

Troy,

I can tell you that in my case, it matters little to me what's holding up the paint, be it brass, cast metal, plastic or wood.  I want something that looks good and runs well.

Unlike O, which as to deal with 3 rails or 2, S is just a matter of flange size.  No wiring changes or changes to how the wheels are insulated are needed.  The only difference is the machining on the driver tires, which is a separate piece.  SHS and AM have shown it can be done without adding significant cost.

With just about everybody in the known universe using DC can motors, the internal wiring is not much of an issue anymore, especially if the standard 8-pin DCC plug is adhered to. 

With S probably being about 85%/15% in favor of Flyer and Hirail, it may seem daunting to produce Scale wheeled equipment. 

Doubtless with Lionel's new efforts and MTH's purchase of SHS there is potential to increase the customer base, which ultimately is the REAL issue.  The ratio of Flyer-Hirail to Scale may remain the same, but the underlying numbers should increase. 

If not, this whole effort becomes a flash in the pan and we'll be sitting on the porch at the Old S Gaugers home going on wistfully about "wasn't that a time!"

Rusty

I don't disagree with you, jonny.  These recent developments in S are the greatest thing since sliced bread in my opinion.  Hopefully, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

I still think the ratio of Flyer/Hirail to Scale will remain the same, but the blurry middle may be greater than what 3 Rail Scale is in O.  There may be a large emerging group content with the large flanges but use Kadee couplers and scale approace to scenery. 

Brooks Stover successfully uses this approach on his Buffalo Creek and Gauley.

It's funny, but once I was showing a video to an HO "serious modeler" friend of the modular group I belonged to.  I was running a HiRail train consisting of AM locomotives and a mixture of AM, SHS and PRS cars running on AM track.  He complimented us on how good things looked.  He didn't even notice the Flyer-compatible couplers until they were pointed out and he was still impressed!

Rusty

I can hope for more scale in S. With 2-rail they're half way there already. That should tempt other suppliers to join in as the trend catches on.

Good Day,

How about auto carriers!

Regards,

Swafford

New Haven EP3 and New York Central P2 electrics.

Lionel must offer 

Thrall Car Double-door 86' Auto Parts Box Car 

          OR

Pullman-Standard Double-door 86' Auto-Parts Box Car

to accompany those full scale Auto Carriers that Frank depicted.

Andrew

Union Pacific M10000 in City of Salina livery.

For all those long locomotives and rolling stock Lionel will have to offer R40 curved track sections and switches.

Andrew

New York Central Niagaras and Mohawks...

Good Day Andrew,

I agree totally. Lionel needs to offer several larger radius curves. In addition, I think a high-speed switch for the parallel main lines would be in great!

The NS Heritage line-up will be fantastic!

Regards, 
Frank

Seems there are a lot of better alternatives out there than 10 " sectional track for these IMHO.

Good Day, 

What I'd really like to see Lionel present......................General Electric’s Evolution Hybrid ES44AC.

With all the features and of the O Scale Version.

Regards, 

Swafford

Good Day,

Thursday is Lionel's day for the 2013 catalog presentation. I'm anxious to see what is new in the American Flyer line-up! Any leaks out there?

Regards,

Frank  

"don't forget about the new NS steam program as well!!! "

Come to think of it, with the whole heritage program, maybe NS could flip Andy Meuller (sp?) at the Reading and Northern some cash to get Rdg T-1 2102 out and about.  That would be fun!!

I know this is an older post but I thought it to be a very interesting statement. One that I hope comes true although I am not as convinced as Jonnyspeed. The main reason I say that I am not convinced is that it is hard to get folks to switch scales. I know it happens from time to time but when one has a lot invested in a particular scale it is hard to give all that up and start over.

In all of the scales that are smaller than S scale, the scale modelers out number the non-scale modelers (for lack of a better term) by a huge amount. Only in S and O (I'm not sure about G) do the non-scale folk out number the scale folks. The question is are some of the traditional Flyer guys also getting into the scale stuff or are they sticking with the traditional AF stuff? I'm still on the fence but whether or not I join the S scale ranks I hope Jonnyspeed is correct. As you all know there are many advantages of S over O and I see only a few advantages of O over S. One of the big ones is product. So if Jonny is right and S gains more product either equal to or almost equal to O then S will definitely grow. Theoretically over a long span of time do you think it would grow to the point where S (the scale side of S) is larger than the scale size of O? Is possible that S could even cut into the ranks of HO and take a bite out of their pie?

That's because HO, N, and Z don't have as much of a "toy train" heritage weighing them down.

S will always be linked to A.C. Gilbert, because in the past Gilbert was the only major manufacturer of S.  Sure, there were other players in the scale, but they were all small companies by comparison and nobody else offered a complete "system:" Trains, track and transformer/power packs.  HO had multiple companies like Athearn/Globe, Mantua/Tyco, Varney, etc., offering everything needed to get started in the hobby.

Now, will all this "new blood" of renewed Flyer and MTH draw modelers form other scales?  Possibly, time will tell.  It is a gut-wrenching thing to change scales.  I know, I did it in 1985. 

Today's models in practically all the scales are pretty much on a par with each other in detail and electronics-wise.  So you have to step back and ask "What's the attraction?"  At the moment, it certainly isn't variety or availablity. It could be the size vs. space thing or simply the thought of doing something in a different scale.  I really don't know. 

One thing I can say for sure is that even though I may still dabble a little in the other scales, I really can't see moving out of S.

Rusty

Good Day Rusty,

I agree with you the on the size vs. space aspect. I think we will see some O Scale Model Railroaders move to S Scale because of the size vs. space for a nice layout in that spare bedroom or den. In addition, Lionel American Flyer with Legacy Control and Railsounds will be a big attraction to the HO Model Railroaders. To me, Legacy and TMCC are easy and simple to operate. S Scale will be the fastest growing Model Railroad scale in the 21^st Century!

Regards,

Frank

I'll drink to that!

Rusty, I can totally see that. You have a really beautiful layout in S so why would you want to change something major like the scale. If I was in your shoes I wouldn't either. But I have seen some guys build great model railroads and then tear them down to build something new. To each his own but I don't care for the construction part of model railroading (benchwork and wiring).

That's only because I don't take pictures of the mess cluttering up the Great Plywood Glacier on the other side!

This is actually my second S Scale railroad.  I had to tear down the first one when I though I'd be placing a second sump pit in this side of the basement.  I came pretty close to going back to HO back then, but after taking some time to think about it, I decided I liked S scale more, salvaged what I could and rebuilt. 

I haven't regretted that decision.

Rusty

Aahh Rusty, you are too honest! You're not supposed to tell people about the Great Plywood Glacier on the other side of the layout. Smoke and mirrors baby!

Good Day,

What NS Heritage engines have you ordered? I'm really curious to see the NS Heritage ES44AC's.

Regards,

Frank

I would love to see an RDC powered unit smoke, sound, and northeast area road names.

John