Lionel Items Available at KOHLS.COM, but what's with the crazy prices???

Kohls seems to have something called "Kohls Cash" which can be used to heavily discount items.  I haven't paid much attention to it, but the wife regularly buys seemingly hundreds of dollars worth of clothing and household goods for $38 and change.  At least that's how it appears to me.  At checkout the cashier will tell her "you saved $458". 

I don't know how it really works.

George

Yes... Kohl's Cash is earned at special times throughout the year.  They'll have a period of say 2 weeks where you can get $10 Kohl's Cash for every $50 spent.  But the kicker is you need to spend the Kohl's cash during a specified period of time... say the next week or two after the promo period where the Kohl's Cash can be earned.  Years ago, they were real lax about using the Kohl's cash, but nowadays they're pretty strict about holding consumers to the specified time period.

And as I mentioned, they ALWAYS seem to have discount coupon codes as well... often between 15-30%.

I guess they do what they gotta do to make the math work out on these Lionel items.  But it would seem better to just exclude certain items from sales/promos/etc... rather than inflate the prices to the point of the absurd.

David

It makes you wonder...Somebody there is Knowledgeable enough to get them into O gauge trains but not enough to make  it successful.  People that are interested in the trains  (for the most part) know enough to get better prices at hobby shops or online dealers, then finally they will put them on sale to get rid of the inventory.

Wonder if they are stocking it or just drop shipping it.  

Not a fan of their card after my wife got one and I looked at terms.  

I never go by coupons, some much today 15%...blah blah. I want to know what something cost I will goole best price on this item. If the price comes up close to what it is advertised price I may consider it.

I had a friend who worked at Macy's, they would mark up stuff 50% above MSRP then discount it 

15, 25, 50%. most department stores all do it now. What happened to the ethics in Business? 

David, there's one born every minute. And on the off chance that there isn't, the after Christmas blowout will probably put Charlie to shame.

Kohls was one of our customers the corporation I worked for provided janitorial services to.

Although Kohls always paid on time they were a real pain to deal with. More often than not Kohls was hatful to my field managers who over saw the services we provided in their stores and more often than not treated our employees with no respect. Kohls was one book of business I was very happy to lose.

There is no amount of discounts or "Kohls cash" that would move me to purchase a Lionel train, not even a Vision  Line Big Boy from Kohls.

Richard

Can you just imagine being able to buy an Allegheny using Kohl's Cash and stacking a few promotional coupons????  

Then again, you'd probably be starting with a Kohl's "regular price" of $4,000. 

My daughter worked for Kohl's during high school.  She told me that if I ever pay retail that she'd disown me as a father.

Jon  

Although Kohl's plays all sorts of games with their prices, I have trouble believing that they are deliberately starting at a price higher than MSRP.  A really bad move IMO - anyone who buys at those prices will eventually realize how badly they've been ripped off; I just hope they choose to direct their anger at Kohl's and not Lionel.  

I wonder if Kohl's has a pricing policy where they always start at a certain markup above wholesale.  It's my understanding that Lionel's wholesale prices are a higher percentage of MSRP than are those of most other goods that Kohl's sells.  So, if Kohl's always starts their price at 2 times wholesale, they could easily come up with the prices in the original post.

Unfortunately, the people who are likely to pay too much for Lionel at Kohl's probably aren't reading the OGR forum.

My sig other has a Kohl's card.  When she has a 30% discount, I'll go with her and by clothes when needed.  I always laugh when the cashier says that she saved more money than she spent - I wonder how they can say that with a straight face.  As for the terms of the card, it doesn't matter - just don't buy what you can't afford to pay in full each month, just like any credit card. 

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

...they would mark up stuff 50% above MSRP then discount it..15, 25, 50%. most department stores all do it now. What happened to the ethics in Business? 

Similarly, I stumbled on a vendor at the ATMA "First Frost" show in Allentown that was selling currently available Menard's flatcars and other items that were similarly marked up to unconscionable levels (from reasonable Menard's pricing of $29.99 up to $59). I really wanted to say something but was too gutless, I guess, and didn't want to create a dust-up on the floor...I was shocked at the cojones it took to set them out at that price. I could never bring myself to do that if I was a vendor. 

Went to Kohl's site with the intent of writing a "review" mentioning the MSRP.  Unfortunately, one needs to sign in or create an account in order to do so, which ain't gonna happen.  

Sounds like David is lobbying Lionel for a new position, CPO. Chief Pricing Officer... 

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

So this evening I was searching for some items, and stumbled into kohls.com carrying Lionel items only available online -- not at their local stores.  Nice to see Lionel is exploring alternate sales channels, but I couldn't get past the ridiculous prices!!!  I'm just wondering what the average John & Jane Q. Public are gonna be thinking when they see these prices. 

 

David 

 

 

The average John Q. Public is probably not going to know or care.  I'd bet most wouldn't even know who outfits like Charlie Ro or Trainworld are to compare prices.  They probably wouldn't even check the Lionel website.

Buying train stuff is not their goal for going to Kohl's.  If they buy train stuff there, particularly seasonal stuff, most likely it's an impulse purchase ("Oh look, how cute....") because they're not in the hobby anyway.

Rusty

Wow these toys are a lot more expensive then when I was a kid.

Tepid Liquid posted:

Wow these toys are a lot more expensive then when I was a kid.

Yup, and when I set up my carpet layouts, I don't remember the floors being so hard on my knees, me having to squint just to see stuff and my back hurting so much either when I'm playing with them, what's up with all of this? LOL!!!!

A price topic by David, what a rare occasion

Kohl's is a great retailer but they the craziest pricing schemes I have ever seen.  Typically their normal selling prices seem high.  But then they have all these coupons an Kohl's cash coupons that end up discounting the item to a decent price.   I am hard on everyday watches because of working outside and such.  Every year or so I goto to Kohl's looking for a new work watch.  I have learned that the $45 watch always ends up being $15-$20 after all the coupons get applied. Great for a throw away watch.

In the case of trains I think Kohl's pricing scheme will only hurt attracting new folks into the hobby.  I can see people saying wow these trains are very expensive. Some may know about the coupons but some may not.  The result being that they may make a quick decision that model trains are just too expensive to have for the kids. 

I applaud Lionel reaching out to big retailers and I do hope this relationship proves successful.  It will be interesting to see how it works out.

Ed

Retailers with brick and mortar stores are having declining sales, it's not surprising that they'd expand their product lines to compete.  Remember, there really is one born every minute, and I suspect a lot of Kohls customers don't know the prices of train items.  I really doubt they made any mistakes in the pricing.

Rusty Traque posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

... I'm just wondering what the average John & Jane Q. Public are gonna be thinking when they see these prices. 

...

The average John Q. Public is probably not going to know or care.  I'd bet most wouldn't even know who outfits like Charlie Ro or Trainworld are to compare prices.  They probably wouldn't even check the Lionel website.

...

Ed Walsh posted:

...

In the case of trains I think Kohl's pricing scheme will only hurt attracting new folks into the hobby.  I can see people saying wow these trains are very expensive. Some may know about the coupons but some may not.  The result being that they may make a quick decision that model trains are just too expensive to have for the kids. 

...

Rusty, Ed's post hits EXACTLY where I was thinking with regard to the question I posed about John & Jane Q. Public.  Very true that they're not gonna know who Charlie Ro is... or any of the typical dealers we know in our hobby circles.  But my point was more about the average person looking at these Kohl's train prices and shaking their head, when in fact those "original prices" are inflated to a point of absurdity that nobody inside the hobby would EVER pay.  And when folks use coupons and Kohl's cash to pay for these items, they're only devaluing the worth of those coupons/cash-points.

I realize Marty and Matt like to poke fun at my pricing posts... that's their prerogative... they need to have fun too.  But they can think of this thread as more of a public service announcement, rather than a market analysis if that makes them feel any better. 

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I realize Marty and Matt like to poke fun at my pricing posts... that's their prerogative... 

David

Are they any other kinds of posts from you?  If I find any I can poke fun at those. 

I personally dont shop at Kohls but these purchases will be impulse buys to run around the tree then put into a box to be forgotten until next year.

Mikey

Actually Kohls seem positive amateurs when it comes to jacked prices.

Try this Harry Potter G-gauge set.

Amazon is chock-a-block FULL of absolutely, bizarrely  CRAZY prices. I never understood it!

Took me all of 10 seconds to find one of these nutty listings!

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

...Rusty, Ed's post hits EXACTLY where I was thinking with regard to the question I posed about John & Jane Q. Public.  Very true that they're not gonna know who Charlie Ro is... or any of the typical dealers we know in our hobby circles....

David, et al, I would add it's not just the general public who are unaware of great places to buy trains reasonably priced. Some of our model railroading colleagues are similarly unaware of the great bargains to be had in the marketplace. I saw this firsthand this morning at the TCA Mid Atlantic train show in Philadelphia with vendors selling Menard's products at scalper level pricing, (i.e., Menards American Power and Light  building for $120; Menards  individual boxcars and army load cars averaging $60 to $85), and more than a handful of TCA member attendees were seen both ogling them and parting with their cash for them.

Btw, it was also sad to see 14 empty tables which had been reserved (paid for?) by sellers who were apparent no shows at this modestly sized show.

Maybe Kohls is like a lot of people with no real knowledge of the model train world.  They hear the words "model trains" and assume they are worth a fortune and anyone that buys them can spend a small fortune to get them.

Rick

Just wanted to say, before thus topic is deleted, caveat emptor is the rule.  Kohl's can have an after-Christmas sale (before or after Christmas) if less than knowledgeable buyers don't snap up the merchandise as priced.

What, me worry?

And in January any unsold ones will sell for $100

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I never go by coupons, some much today 15%...blah blah. I want to know what something cost I will goole best price on this item. If the price comes up close to what it is advertised price I may consider it.

I had a friend who worked at Macy's, they would mark up stuff 50% above MSRP then discount it 

15, 25, 50%. most department stores all do it now. What happened to the ethics in Business? 

John, that has been going on for years, decades even.

I can recall Kaufmann's department store in Pittsburgh doing this in the 1970s.

George

Here's the gag: Kohl's rarely sells its merchandise at the regular price. The chain inflates the "regular" price to give the illusion that the actual selling price to is a "sale." So, psychologically, the buyer is being manipulated into thinking the item is a bargain, which encourages spending.

Most of the time, the outlandishness of the regular price isn't quite so obvious. A pair of jeans for $50. It could happen. A polo shirt for $40. Depends on the quality. But, hey, this week they are 50 percent off! Plus another 20 percent if you use your Kohls card.

I have been a Kohls customer forever -- roughly 23 years, maybe more -- even before I moved to Wisconsin, where the chain started and is still based corporately, and I like their stores and much of their merchandise. (That includes the St. Nicholaus Square series of ceramic buildings, which are very nice possibilities for O gauge traditional layouts, by the way.) But as someone noted, never pay the retail price at Kohls. That's almost a mantra among Kohls shoppers.

In this case, we train guys have the advantage over Kohls. We know what the MRSP is. Gotcha this time, Kohls!

Its all in good fun David but I shudder to imagine the thread where you actually buy Kohls high priced trains and they dont honor their shipping schedule

MartyE posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I realize Marty and Matt like to poke fun at my pricing posts... that's their prerogative... 

David

Are they any other kinds of posts from you?  If I find any I can poke fun at those. 

I'm sure if you look hard enough, you'll find a few taking Lionel to task on their new website and all the "misinformation" on posted shipping schedules.  The latter actually was getting a bit better; but now with MR leaving the scene, I fear the shipping schedule will drift into disarray again.   

David

It's all fun and games til the trains don't arrive on time. One of the worlds greatest issues, late trains

So the plot thickens with kohls.com pricing.  Apparently, Kohls (along with Macy's, Sears, and JC Penny) is being taken to task by Los Angeles prosecutors for illegal pricing strategies.  Seems a sad commentary on business ethics in general today.

You can read yesterday's article by clicking here.

David

Yeah, I was listening to all the holiday adds on the radio and I couldn't help but notice how complicated these companies have made it to buy things at their stores and save money. Points, store cash, coupons and coupons and special offers. JEEZ, you need a PHD in marketing just to figure all this stuff out. Why can you jsut have a price and then a sale

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

So the plot thickens with kohls.com pricing.  Apparently, Kohls (along with Macy's, Sears, and JC Penny) is being taken to task by Los Angeles prosecutors for illegal pricing strategies.  Seems a sad commentary on business ethics in general today.

You can read yesterday's article by clicking here.

David

Sorry.....I think you can charge whatever you want for things like toys.....(it's not a life sustaining item) and buyer beware .......lawsuits like this I see as nanny state tactics. I have distain for some retailers pricing tactics and thus do not shop there. Be informed. 

I agree with the L.A. County prosecutors and the California law.  The problem is the deceptive advertising practice.  You can advertise an automobile getting a minimum of 80+mpg and not mention to the customer that it was attained by coasting down Pikes Peak in neutral with the engine off.   Hence the Federal measurement standard for mpg highway and city.

I agree totally.  This Kohl's pricing strategy is bewildering to me. Apparently my wife is expert at it as she can keep track of coupons, kohl's cash, sale, super sale, etc. as she said she gets great bargains there.

I guess I am just getting old and out of touch with the new way of marketing.  All I want to do is to go and see an item, look at the price tag and then decide if I like the price.  Don't want to go thru a pile of papers looking for kohl's cash or any number of coupons to see what the real price is.  

My concern with Lionel products in Kohl's with their complicated selling plan is that how many people don't know that the price you pay is substantially lower that the ticket price, assuming you know know about all the coupons and other sales incentives.   I can see a parent seeing a train set and thinking what a great gift this would be, that is until they see the crazy ticket price.  I dare say that parents who are not familiar with model trains would also be clueless that there are any number of train retailers whose everyday prices are substantially lower.

i am afraid that Lionel will turn off a lot more potential buyers than they actually get.

Ed

aussteve posted:

I agree with the L.A. County prosecutors and the California law.  The problem is the deceptive advertising practice.  You can advertise an automobile getting a minimum of 80+mpg and not mention to the customer that it was attained by coasting down Pikes Peak in neutral with the engine off.   Hence the Federal measurement standard for mpg highway and city.

Yes....let's hold everyone's hand all day everyday........

Maybe a career as a Sr Analyst has made me 'smart' in the ways of purchasing and not getting 'taken'........please tell me I am not alone.......please tell me no one is buying that 80 mpg Pikes Peak edition car!!!!!