I bought a Lionel- Ives 1651E in non running condition this summer at a train meet. At that time, the Unit “buzzed” when I applied clips to it(both upside down and right side up.)Later, after some cleaning, I tried again and there was no buzz. I took it for repair, told the issues I had noticed, and requested that it be kept as original as possible but get it running(I.e. if the e-unit won’t work bypass it but keep the original e-unit in- only has one coupler anyway).
Concise version(if you want more details they're after my questions): Basically my repair guy said that Field Coil is shot and that if I want to replace the motor it'd have to be from another 1651E. He said it couldn't just be from another Ives or Lionel prewar engine b/c of how it mounts. BUT I just read in the Oct. 2021 "The Lion Roars" that the 1651E's motor was "standard Lionel o gauge". So I have two questions:
Question 1.) What does it mean- "The field coil is shot"- I assume that means the winding would have to be rewound?(more details regarding the field winding an motor are below)
Question 2.) Is this motor and it's mounting unique? Or can I switch it with the motor from a similar prewar such as the 253?
DETAILED/LONGER Version- Repair Assessment, THe Bad News:
After I talked to the repair guy and he said that the Field Coil is shot. I asked about the next steps. As he also works with Henning’s, he mentioned that he went there and Harry gave him a part to try but no dice. I asked if we are we looking at a full motor replacement and I offered one of my Ives or Lionel Prewar motors. He said that it wouldn't work and mentioned He said how it’d be hard to find one for this engine due to its age and "the way it mounts"- which I knew. To my offer he said basically the same and what I expected- the Ives motors from the 20s would likely be difficult to fit. I asked if this was it and He said he’s not done yet and still has things in the works.
engine, e-unit, motor info:
Below there’s a detailed description of the motor, e-unit etc.. Unfortunately, I have no pics but provided an image from a free to anyone trains.com article of what might be the motor
The 1651E, according to Train99.com “...was made in 1933 only.” it has Lionel-Ives Lines across the top and an e-unit vs the 1651 predecessor which just says “Ives RR Lines” and has no e-unit. Also per Train99.com, “The locomotive has a Lionel 253 frame that was modified to fit an Ives motor. The cab attaches to the frame with tabs and slots- not screws like the 253 has. “
If you want more info, my inspection of the motor, e-unit, etc... is below:
1.) 3 position E-unit with 6 fingers: One 4 finger contact strip with a centered 2 finger contact strip in front.(I'm no e-unit expert but that's what it appeared to be)
2.) E-unit solder lug: The solder lug opposite e-unit lever’s contact eyelet had 5 wires attached poorly, it appeared someone tried soldering the not only the lug but The other end of some wire connections . One wire went to the Center rail pick-up, one went to the headlight, one wire from the e-unit coil, one wire went to the motor field coil but was disconnected from where it was soldered, aNd one wire went to a small plate around a brush well(see number 4)
3.) Both Brushes had a spring down had a spring above them, not uncommon. However, the top of both wells had two small holes across from each other. Each well had A rather thick “metal wire” that ran through one hole and out the other, then wereslightly bent back over the well- these placed pressure on the springs. It’s been awhile since I checked out a Prewar motor but that was different
4.) Brush Well with Metal Tab & Wire: The bottom of one Brush well a had thin metal ring with a very small metal tab(all one piece) that fit around the well and could slightly rotate around the well’s circumference. Below this ring & tab was a square non-conductive, gasket-like material which extended slightly further from the tab, likely to prevent any of the metal from touching the commutator. This tab was meant to connect to a wire from the e-unit solder lug, but had become disconnected at some point. Hence, due to someone soldering, the wire could only loosely wrap around a small, curved protrusion of solder.
Here is a free article from trains.com on repairing and maintimg Lionel postwar locos. I believe my motor is similar to the “ type B” on page 8(pic below)
