Lionel Legacy J3A Hudson

I found a post from Mr. Muffins who released a version of the J3A with no marker lights, all black, darker gray boiler, and darkened rods.   We’re there others variations?  

Pats Trains offered one like the one that came with the Pacemaker Passenger set but without class lights and standard tender. MrMuffins came with a PT tender with water scoop effect. Both sold out now. I believe those were the only two special runs.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Pats Trains offered one like the one that came with the Pacemaker Passenger set but without class lights and standard tender. MrMuffins came with a PT tender with water scoop effect. Both sold out now. I believe those were the only two special runs.

Pete

Thank you Pete.  

Pat's Hudson was advertised to be identical to the Hudson in the Pacemaker Set with classification lights. One of the selling points for this particular J3a was that a second boiler front without class lights was to be included for those who preferred that look.

Surprisingly, it was  delivered without the class lights and we were supposed to get a second boiler front with the lights. Now, six months later and STILL NOTHING!

I purchased one of the Pat's Trains versions (#5416) specifically for its historically correct appearance (circa. 1938) and that the unsightly classification lights could be made to easily go away. That it was built as-delivered without the class lights was a truly pleasant surprise because their existence as-modeled spoils the looks of the locomotive for me and is historically incorrect for the prototype. It is an all-black, handsome, good running piece. Whether or not a smoke box front with two holes in it ever shows up is of little consequence to me (personally) and I wouldn't hold my breath for one to appear soon, given the current 'situation'. 

The significant glitch in the new J3a's regardless of which version you choose is the 5 chuff/rev. in the Legacy sounds. This should be mentioned specifically because it may matter to prospective purchasers.

Have fun.

Bob

@Bob Bubeck posted:

The significant glitch in the new J3a's regardless of which version you choose is the 5 chuff/rev. in the Legacy sounds. This should be mentioned specifically because it may matter to prospective purchasers.

Have fun.

Bob

So rediculous. After after 15 years of being 2 chuffs short. Now you get one extra

 Glad I cancelled my preorder early on. I'll grab one of the 50th anniversary J3s, have it upgraded, and still come in several hundred dollars under the legacy version and have reliable Pittman power to boot.

When are the other boiler fronts supposed to be shipped to Pat's Trains buyer of the 5416?

@RickO posted:

So rediculous. After after 15 years of being 2 chuffs short. Now you get one extra

 Glad I cancelled my preorder early on. I'll grab one of the 50th anniversary J3s, have it upgraded, and still come in several hundred dollars under the legacy version and have reliable Pittman power to boot.

I own one of the 50th Anniversary sets and that J3a is very nice, indeed, for its time. I had to shorten the draw bar which is, in my view, aesthetically imperative. As part of an upgrade, you will likely find it necessary to 'do something' about the puffer style smoke unit, which given the passage of time, is a serious shortcoming. 

Have fun.

Bob

@John Rowlen posted:

When are the other boiler fronts supposed to be shipped to Pat's Trains buyer of the 5416?

There has been no date specified for shipment.  The only information provided to this point is “available at a later date.”  I am NOT holding my breath.

@RickO posted:

So rediculous. After after 15 years of being 2 chuffs short. Now you get one extra

 Glad I cancelled my preorder early on. I'll grab one of the 50th anniversary J3s, have it upgraded, and still come in several hundred dollars under the legacy version and have reliable Pittman power to boot.

For less than the cost of the Legacy engine you can get the whole 50th Anniversary set with the 5433 sans class lights as the creator intended. Whats to upgrade? A cam swap will get you four chuffs. Easy peasy.

As for smokebox fronts Pat doesn't have the part because Lionel doesn't have the part. In fact other than a few electronic boards they have zero, ziltch, nada parts for these engines.

Pete

@Norton posted:

A cam swap will get you four chuffs. Easy peasy.

Maybe easy for you, but you have to make the cam.   Now, the Chuff-Generator is easy for me, and I don't have to grind out a cam.

@Bob Bubeck posted:

I purchased one of the Pat's Trains versions (#5416) specifically for its historically correct appearance (circa. 1938) and that the unsightly classification lights could be made to easily go away. That it was built as-delivered without the class lights was a truly pleasant surprise because their existence as-modeled spoils the looks of the locomotive for me and is historically incorrect for the prototype. It is an all-black, handsome, good running piece. Whether or not a smoke box front with two holes in it ever shows up is of little consequence to me (personally) and I wouldn't hold my breath for one to appear soon, given the current 'situation'. 

The significant glitch in the new J3a's regardless of which version you choose is the 5 chuff/rev. in the Legacy sounds. This should be mentioned specifically because it may matter to prospective purchasers.

Have fun.

Bob

Bob, I think "unsightly," "spoils" and "historically incorrect"  are pretty strong words. Considering:

1. As classification lights were no longer required on main line service as of 1938, but still required on secondary lines.  Once the Niagara were delivered, many J3a Hudsons were moved to secondary lines after only 7 years and remained in secondary service for another 6-7 years into the early 1950's.

2. There are plenty of photos showing some J3a's fitted with brackets to accommodate classification lights. This photo of 5405 is obviously sometime after change to San Serif numbers in the 40's. I have only found 1 photo of a J3a #5411 (below) with classification lights but that proves the point that there were J3a's in service where they were required.

3. In my opinion, these locomotives look beautiful either way. Note: Lionel took care to place these classification lights at the same level as the brackets on the above photo of J3a 5405, rather than at the higher position as they were on the J1s and J2s.

4. Some of us like the classification lights and in my opinion it should have been delivered as advertised, with the additional boiler front being the one without the lights. 

Bob, You're a good guy and I enjoy your posts! Enjoy your J3a.

For me, purchasing the special run from Pat was to have the option to have one without class lights by simply changing the boiler front. As it turns out, Lionel shipped them with the boiler front without class lights already installed which addresses that option. However, there’s been no word from anyone on the status of the other boiler front. It would be nice to hear something. 

Just my $.02

Mike

Did anyone just call Pats and ask about the other boiler front?  How simple could that be?

Marty,

I’ve called and sent e-mail with no response. 

Mike

@MartyE posted:

Did anyone just call Pats and ask about the other boiler front?  How simple could that be?

Called twice asking for a time frame. Answered once, in January, and said we'll get them when Lionel sends them. Emailed 3 times. No response.

Sounds like an answer. Not sure what more he can tell you. Maybe another phone call for a status up date if emails not working. Although I am giving leeway to a lot of folk in business these days due to what they are going through. I’d still give him a call. 

Again, don't blame Pat. Anymore Lionel has few if any parts for their recently released engines, not just these Hudsons.

If you really want a front with class lights you can still get the one for the TMCC 5444. Not sure the graphite will match but you can get an idea from my video above. Then swap headlights when you want class lights. 

Alternatively you can wait forever.

Pete

I think it is important to state clearly that, at least for myself, the disappointment regarding the missing boiler front is not directed at Pat.  It is directed at Lionel for absolutely NO communication regarding when or whether, for that matter,  the boiler fronts will be available.  I have no doubt that Pat would like for this situation to be resolved but he has no control when Lionel will supply the missing twenty-five boiler fronts.  So, until Lionel either sends Pat the promised parts or makes an announcement that the boiler fronts will not be available, what is Pat supposed to say that he hasn't already said?

I completely agree with Skip ( @NYC Fan ), this engine was supposed to be delivered with the boiler front with the classification lights and since many, many other J3A engines were delivered with the classification lights, this one certainly SHOULD have been.   

Curious why I should be expected to purchase a second boiler front when I haven't received the first one I already paid for?

I don't expect anyone to do anything. Not any individual, not Lionel only pointing out options. Just saying if I were presented with this situation and wanted a model to look a certain way I would make it myself. Just like the SD70AHs. It would cost about the same to have some transfers sent to reletter those as for one of those smokebox fronts. I would be disappointed but would go ahead and do it myself. Its becoming clearer and clearer Lionel won't help or will be dragged kicking and screaming as they were having the N&W Js repainted.

Pete

@GregM posted:

I think it is important to state clearly that, at least for myself, the disappointment regarding the missing boiler front is not directed at Pat.  It is directed at Lionel for absolutely NO communication regarding when or whether, for that matter,  the boiler fronts will be available.  I have no doubt that Pat would like for this situation to be resolved but he has no control when Lionel will supply the missing twenty-five boiler fronts.  So, until Lionel either sends Pat the promised parts or makes an announcement that the boiler fronts will not be available, what is Pat supposed to say that he hasn't already said?

I completely agree with Skip ( @NYC Fan ), this engine was supposed to be delivered with the boiler front with the classification lights and since many, many other J3A engines were delivered with the classification lights, this one certainly SHOULD have been.   

Curious why I should be expected to purchase a second boiler front when I haven't received the first one I already paid for?

 

 

 

Greg, 

It should be pointed out that Pat's Hudson with the standard tender was priced $100 more than the others with the standard tender and the same as the other J3a's with the PT Tender with the water scoop effect. As far as I'm concerned, the second boiler front was well paid for.

All I'm hoping for is for Pat to get a time frame from Lionel and communicate that to the 25 customers.

I think a lot of the problems are not necessarly Lionel themselves, but the overseas factories and the business practices of the Chinese themselves.   Back when this stuff was made in house in Michigan, these issues could be fixed preproduction or not even happen at all.  It was once everything moved off shore, to builders that have never seen American trains that things took a turn in every brand.   AD

@NYC Fan posted:

Bob, I think "unsightly," "spoils" and "historically incorrect"  are pretty strong words. Considering:

1. As classification lights were no longer required on main line service as of 1938, but still required on secondary lines.  Once the Niagara were delivered, many J3a Hudsons were moved to secondary lines after only 7 years and remained in secondary service for another 6-7 years into the early 1950's.

2. There are plenty of photos showing some J3a's fitted with brackets to accommodate classification lights. This photo of 5405 is obviously sometime after change to San Serif numbers in the 40's. I have only found 1 photo of a J3a #5411 (below) with classification lights but that proves the point that there were J3a's in service where they were required.

 

3. In my opinion, these locomotives look beautiful either way. Note: Lionel took care to place these classification lights at the same level as the brackets on the above photo of J3a 5405, rather than at the higher position as they were on the J1s and J2s.

4. Some of us like the classification lights and in my opinion it should have been delivered as advertised, with the additional boiler front being the one without the lights. 

Bob, You're a good guy and I enjoy your posts! Enjoy your J3a.

Hi Skip,

The way in which Lionel has mounted the over sized classification lights with visible wires on their J3a's spoils the looks (for me, anyway) as model. Because I am employing my 5416 to head up a representation of the Twentieth Century circa 1938, the class lights are historically incorrect for my purposes. Another personal foible is that I grew up owning a Gilbert Flyer J3a (a No. 325AC) and have collected many more spanning 16 years of Gilbert production since. The S gauge/scale models were reasonably decent representations of the J3a in their day and do not have class lights. And, my 50th Anniversary J3a does not have them, either. So, I look upon the class lights as an alien presence. YMMV.

You are correct that the extra front should have been included, but I can imagine how/why it was not tossed in the box at the time of assembly because that small run (25) of J3a's was specified to be assembled without. Then, there is also Lionel's rather amazing practice of obtaining parts by disassembling finished models (which is another whole topic of discussion!). The extra smoke box fronts will likely catch up with us in time, but I am not tempted to hold my breath in the interim. 

I am enjoying all of my J3a's and hope you are, too!!

Bob

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Hi Skip,

The way in which Lionel has mounted the over sized classification lights with visible wires on their J3a's spoils the looks (for me, anyway) as model. Because I am employing my 5416 to head up a representation of the Twentieth Century circa 1938, the class lights are historically incorrect for my purposes. Another personal foible is that I grew up owning a Gilbert Flyer J3a (a No. 325AC) and have collected many more spanning 16 years of Gilbert production since. The S gauge/scale models were reasonably decent representations of the J3a in their day and do not have class lights. And, my 50th Anniversary J3a does not have them, either. So, I look upon the class lights as an alien presence. YMMV.

You are correct that the extra front should have been included, but I can imagine how/why it was not tossed in the box at the time of assembly because that small run (25) of J3a's was specified to be assembled without. Then, there is also Lionel's rather amazing practice of obtaining parts by disassembling finished models (which is another whole topic of discussion!). The extra smoke box fronts will likely catch up with us in time, but I am not tempted to hold my breath in the interim. 

I am enjoying all of my J3a's and hope you are, too!!

Bob

I understand Bob. I agree that the wires on the class lamps are too thick. I also have the 50th Anniversary set and the separate sale J3a 5444 from the same year. It's all good and I enjoy them all. At 66 years old I'm a little bit more of a kid than perhaps I should be and I like all the bells whistles and lights. I feel that the green lights add a little bit of color to the "strictly business" NYC livery.

I've been running a '38 Twentieth Century Ltd with a Lionel TMCC Dreyfuss on the point and just recently replaced the Dreyfuss with the 5413 J3a Hudson. Love them all. 

Nice talking you, perhaps we'll meet up some day. NYC fans are always welcome!

Did anyone receive a scale pilot with their loco? The two I've seen in person both have 'small' pilots which seems silly (and looks awful) for a steamer of this quality and price...

@NYC Fan posted:

Bob, I think "unsightly," "spoils" and "historically incorrect"  are pretty strong words. Considering:

1. As classification lights were no longer required on main line service as of 1938, but still required on secondary lines.  Once the Niagara were delivered, many J3a Hudsons were moved to secondary lines after only 7 years and remained in secondary service for another 6-7 years into the early 1950's.

2. There are plenty of photos showing some J3a's fitted with brackets to accommodate classification lights. This photo of 5405 is obviously sometime after change to San Serif numbers in the 40's. I have only found 1 photo of a J3a #5411 (below) with classification lights but that proves the point that there were J3a's in service where they were required.

 

3. In my opinion, these locomotives look beautiful either way. Note: Lionel took care to place these classification lights at the same level as the brackets on the above photo of J3a 5405, rather than at the higher position as they were on the J1s and J2s.

4. Some of us like the classification lights and in my opinion it should have been delivered as advertised, with the additional boiler front being the one without the lights. 

Bob, You're a good guy and I enjoy your posts! Enjoy your J3a.

Totally agree. However, I want to point out that when I spoke to Patrick about this issue a couple of months ago, he indicated that he was as surprised as all of us who ordered this special run that the J3a's arrived with the boiler fronts without the marker lights, when the opposite should have been the case. Additionally, he was surprised that the alternate boilers were not included, as they should have been. The point is that the special run was correctly advertised by Patrick. Lionel made both mistakes.

I have spoken with Patrick on many occasions over the years and have never had any problem reaching him by phone.

Pat