Lionel Legacy or MTH UP 4-12-2

Alan,

Well, I must not have articulated my point well. Everyone has an "opinion" about everything on this forum.  I recognize that I have opinions and that is all they are.  I did not intend to make other's observations less consequential than mine.  Opinions that are often expressed as fact or better stated the "gospel" and those are the posts that I find unnerving.  Posting my opinion as fact, gospel or right is the last thing I intended to do.    My comment about who was right was to the original poster.  Who knows?  It is up to the poster to weigh the opinions, determine a host of personal factors to arrive at the decision that best suits his/her situation.  That is what I intended to say, I must have missed the target.

Kevin....no disrespect intended on my part but I think you articulated just fine....I got your point and disagree that anyone stated anything here other than their observations of the available models....most from directly either owning them or experiencing them in some way.  I didn't interpret any of the comparisons above as the poster representing their opinion as gospel.  As I said in my first post, a lot of the discourse on topics like this is based on a "Chevy / Ford" mentality.  Brand loyality can have a definite impact on opinion...

Alan

The MTH version seems to have a more raw natural sounding whistle, but the Lionel legacy version does sound similar.

All of this "back and forth" thought I'd post some "puddin".

MTH

Lionel

Alan, understood.  Then we will respectfully disagree, no harm in that.

My legacy Lionel #9000 with few add on details looks more like the prototype above then the MTH model.  

Joe

That all depends on what era you, or anyone else, is modeling. If you model the late 1920s, great! I model the early to mid 1950s, so that version would not fit my needs.

The point is,  UP # 9000 above shot in 1929 with fewer details and the swinging bell is the same engine #9000 in 1950.

Really no different then chopping the fins off a 59 Cadillac in 1980 and then calling the new version in 2013 the correct version because it fits your modeling style.

Joe 

Joe,

That is a wonderful photo of the 9000.  Thank you for sharing it.  Is anyone with a Lionel version of 4-12-2 experimenting with making the Wesley valve gear operational?

I would suggest that you purchase a copy of the "Prototype Locomotive Photos" Volume 19, from the Union Pacific Historical Society, and look CLOSELY at the photos of ANY of the 9000 class locomotives, and specifically #9000 herself. After the mid to lat 1930s, their appearance changed, i.e. external sand pipes, up-grade to the Worthington Type S Feedwater Systems, cab signal equipment boxes, etc..

You might also closely check your Lionel model against the photo you posted.

>>>You might also closely check your Lionel model against the photo you posted.<<

LOL, no need to.   UP #9000 started out in life as built with less exterior piping then Lionels model. It ended up 50 years later looking more like the 3rd rail version.

I guess you can interpret that as everything added to it in-between is correct.

Lionel appears to have modeled their #9000 from the early 40's.  

Joe

You should also checkout what the Fireman's side looks like!

Can't help but find it most amusing that the so-called self-appointed experts here who have come out of the woodwork claiming the MTH model is superior have neglected to mention one minor point.  Namely, the MTH model was last catalog'd in 2007 and is very likely now only available on the secondary market, whereas the Lionel Legacy versions (3 models, 2 road-numbers) are reasonably available NIB, especially UP #9000 in the classic, old livery paint scheme freshly coming off a second production run earlier this year (with many of the major dealers showing stock right now).

I tend to purchase whichever brand catches my fancy, so I don't really have an axe to grind here.  But suffice it to say, MTH was absent from the U.S. steam market for almost two complete years.  And during that time, quite a handful of Lionel Legacy steamers made their way into my roster, and it's nice to see Lionel's steamers have greatly improved their smoke performance over what it was about 5+ years ago when I would have easily given kudos to MTH in that department.

All this nit-picking about 1920's vs 1940's vs 1950's era modeling may come into play for some folks... or it may not.  Whatever floats ones boat is a personal thing and very subjective.  All of that notwithstanding however, unless MTH decides to re-issue a 4-12-2 in the near future (and anyone's guess there is as good as the next person's), the availability of an MTH 4-12-2 is on a whole different playing field than that of Lionel's -- at least for the current moment.

As for how well steamers like the 4-12-2 track... the long wheelbase will definitely look odd on sharp curves, much like you'd see when folks try to run 21" passenger cars on O-54 track.  Whether we like it or not, this IS O-Gauge/Scale, and some products are simply meant to run (and look) best on O-108 or greater curves.

Just sayin'... 

David

Hi Guys,

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion.  I learned a lot regarding the differences between the 2 models.  Both have their pros and cons.  Hot Water; I appreciate your  input from a prototype perspective.  

I will now attempt to locate and observe and listen to both models in person before I make a decision.  The posted videos really help.

Thanks again,

Steve

Glad to help, Steam Guy. For what it's worth, there is currently an MTH #9000 for sale on eBay, but the seller is asking WAY TOO much as a "Buy it Now, or Best Offer". A fair price should be less than $1000, as a guideline.  Good luck in your search, and enjoy whichever model you get.