while I may not do it, I'm thinking about getting a command control system later in the hobby. the only two available I know of is Lionel's Legacy system and MTH Train's DCS system. which one is better? are they equal? is there a alternate? Tell me here! Remember: Command Control system use by me ISN'T Final! It's just something I'm considering for the future of the hobby!
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Lionel Polar,
The systems are engineered differently but both are very high quality, the Legacy is a similar system, however the DCS can operate 99% of the Legacy system. My recommendation is to Purchase the DCS 1st and then add Legacy to it shortly after.
Purchase Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion book and the ORG Video guide to DCS, both are great educational material for setting up your layout. IMO owning both system is the best way to go. Come back to the OGR and ask as may questions as you need to as you build you command control layout. If you are running FasTrack the new wireless low voltage Command Control Switches are fully controlled from the Cab2 Legacy hand held remote control.
PCRR/Dave
First decide what locomotive or locomotives with command control you would like to own, then buy the loco(s) and the corresponding manufacturer's command control system. It's that simple for most people.
You cannot control MTH locos (PS2 and PS3) with Lionel's Legacy system in command mode, and you cannot control Lionel's locos (TMCC and Legacy) with MTH's DCS system without also purchasing some version of the Lionel Legacy system, so it's pretty straightforward. You only need a Lionel command base if you are planning on using the MTH DCS handheld to control Legacy, but since Lionel does not sell the command base separately, you're going to be buying the whole system in any case.
You only need a Lionel command base if you are planning on using the MTH DCS handheld to control Legacy, but since Lionel does not sell the command base separately, you're going to be buying the whole system in any case.
Just came from a 3 rail 0 and HO show today. One club layout had 2 loop layout. they were using a Z4000 connected to legacy and DCS..like Dave from Pine Creek. All was running quite well. The 2 systems run conventional as well. The HO guys all dc or dcc
If you stumble,plenty of help here on the forum.
There are other command systems, such as DCC and Lionel's LionChief, used in O gauge. Be advised there are advocates and detractors for every system. For O gauge, DCS and Legacy are the two biggies. My recommendation is not to limit yourself to one system: plan to buy both at some point. I have both and I like them both. I run Legacy engines with my Legacy remote, not through the DCS system, which works well for me. I do this mainly because I like the Legacy remote better than the DCS one, plus I really like Legacy's quilling whistle. If you already have a layout I'd go with Legacy first because of its easy setup. If you want to try command control with the least investment, you can buy an older TMCC Cab1 and base pretty cheap to run TMCC engines (which can be found fairly cheap too) and Legacy engines in TMCC mode. No matter what you do, you will really like command control.
I agree with Capp. I have both systems and enjoy each with there respective equipment.
You'll have a much wider array of locomotives with DCS as MTH makes a greater variety of locomotives then Lionel does. But DCS requires specific way for the layout to be wired (Star pattern with blocks of a set length or number of joints.). TMCC/Legacy on the other hand is just one wire attached to the outside rail, and the power can be in blocks or just one power drop for the whole layout. Both offer upgrade kits to wire the locomotives for each command system, but Lionel is a few set sound sets, while MTH has a whole library of unique sounds.
Being Legacy is one wire setup, I chose it for myself because I run carpet centrals that get setup, reconfigured, and taken down on a regular basis.
I would suggest go for the kind of locomotives that you like and want to run then buy the command set for what you buy. I ended up with both but started out with TMCC, then a used DCS, then added Legacy. I did it this way because that is how I found the engines that I wanted and then got the command set to match them.
Also visit some shows, your local train store, and your local club to see what they run since you might want to run something there. You can also sometimes try out the different systems to see what fits you better.
Most of all.....have fun!
I might suggest you look at some videos on the systems first. OGR has a nice video on the DCS system, and I understand that TM Books and Videos just released a really Great DVD on the Legacy System that tells you everything you need to know to get started and then some.
I would prepare yourself to aquire both systems. At some point one of the manufactures will produce a locomotive that you have always wanted or is so nice you have to have it.
The "Killer App" in computer speak that makes you buy the control system.
Nick
I have both. my layout is Lionel LCS controlled and I have DCS to run some MTH trains. I find DCS to be touchy with wiring and conflicts with various older tmcc engines and switches eating the signal. so you have to wire the layout in a way to be sucessful with DCS.
While we have both installed and use both, I mostly use DCS and run MTH trains when we have the public in our place. The speed control in MTH is very good, and as I usually run about 20 trains for 5 hours straight every Saturday across 6 loops of track, I need them to stay put in terms of their relative positions with one and other.....
I also am particularly looking forward to using MTH's new mobile ap with their WiFi WIU. The new mobile ap will actually be easier to use than the current remote as they have re-engineered the menu structure, speed control and have also added a key board so naming stuff will be very easy...... Lots of people have pre-ordered the WIU's through us - this is going to be terriffic!
I really don't think you will find an answer to which system is best here. Both systems have their plus and minuse. Both system do what they were designed to do very well and that's to operate their respective trains.
The best advice anyone can give is find some place that has both. Use it. Consider your roster and possibly your preference in manufacturers. Consider both as well as they do play well together.
Both systems are making improvements and adding features and functionality fairly regular.
Again I don't think you can make a judgement until you've had some experience on both and IMO if you choose 1 over the other will miss out on some cool stuff the other is doing.
LP,
Save your money and purchase both DCS & Legacy you will not be disappointed that you have invested in both, it took me quite a while to add Legacy to my DCS layouts, now I am really glad I did, both have way cool running options and very nice engines, and as I indicated before the Legacy Cab2 wireless remote control of FasTrack Command Control switches is one fantastic engineering upgrade, which DCS can not equal. Purchase both and have a ball.
PCRR/Dave
I have the TH DCS only now and want to run some new Lionel trains. Is it pretty easy to add teh Legacy system ? and then can I run two trains at the same time one MTH the other Lionel ? What do I need to buy other than the Legacy system ? any cables to link the two ? If someone can post a picture of how these two work together I would appreciate it.
This is the cable needed to connect the 2 systems together. Just make sure you read the labeled ends as they are specific as to which device they go to.
I'm no where near an expert as those above but, I can give you my personal experience. I started as a dyed in the wool Post War Lionel guy but the features of command control fascinated me. Since Lionel was what I grew up on I purchased a TMCC CAB1 set and a few TMCC engines. I thought I'd be set, but no, Legacy was such a giant leap forward it was impossible to resist so there I went, a Legacy CAB2 and now several Legacy engines. So now I'm looking for a Legacy New Haven F3, F7, FL9 or ALCO PA... in the McGinnis paint scheme but Lionel has not produced any in Legacy yet (hopefully in the future) but MTH has. Here's where having both command systems is a benefit. I can get the engine I want in that manufacturer's latest version and get all of their features if I own both systems.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Thanks Mike, I keep going back and forth. I don't see as much available in Lionel ( I may be looking in the wrong places ) And the lionel that I do find is 10-20% higher than MTH however some of the feature are really cool. My favorite Steam engine is the NPR #765. I own the MTH however the reviews on the Lionel version blows me away. But again is Lionel worth the extra money ?? And will MTh with the new Wireless APP catch up and have better features down the road. What are your favorite online stores for Lionel ? Around here its mostly MTH or Lionel stuff for kids.
Thanks !
Lionel PE,
As you can see by this thread most of us eventually purchased both systems, because we like both type engines. In my Engineering opinion it is easier for a runner to first set up a good DCS layout, and then add legacy to it, than the other way around. As far as the DCS wiring goes, if you use the correct discipline while building your DCS layout, you will never really have a problem, this is where Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion book is so great. His exacting written instructions are just fantastic, and he covers how to add TMCC/Legacy to the DCS layout. IMO Marty F maybe the foremost authority on DCS/Legacy layout building, his experience level & knowledge is just outstanding, and he participates here for you to ask questions of, he has always been very helpful to everybody. Marty E is the Legacy man, his knowledge is like Marty's F's only on the Legacy side, he participates on the OGR also, and is willing to answer all our questions. There are others of us who are very knowledgeable also, and we will help you as much as we can, when you decide to add command control to your conventional layouts.
Merry Christmas!
PCRR/Dave
How is the MTH WiFi app <-->MTH-WiFi device <--> TMCC on Android going?
I'm game enough to try that.
What do I buy? The WIU, TIU, the above cable, and maybe the app?
I believe it starts shipping on 12/19/15 Mine is on order. Youtube has a couple demo videos by Mike Wolf on it. Looks pretty cool.
Porsche1662 posted:I have the TH DCS only now and want to run some new Lionel trains. Is it pretty easy to add teh Legacy system ? and then can I run two trains at the same time one MTH the other Lionel ? What do I need to buy other than the Legacy system ? any cables to link the two ? If someone can post a picture of how these two work together I would appreciate it.
Questions answered in order 
1: Yes--one wire connection to the outer rails
2: Yes. If you're willing to perform a juggling act and pay close attention to what they're doing, you could even run them coupled together* 
3: If you buy the Legacy system, technically you don't need to buy anything else, since they only come with the base+remote. The decision is already made for you if you add Legacy.
3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features)
3b I have a photo of my DCS connected to a TMCC base, but I can't access it till later this evening.
---PCJ
Coke-Pepsi, Pepsi-Coke. Sooner or later you're to have both...
RailRide posted:Porsche1662 posted:I have the TH DCS only now and want to run some new Lionel trains. Is it pretty easy to add teh Legacy system ? and then can I run two trains at the same time one MTH the other Lionel ? What do I need to buy other than the Legacy system ? any cables to link the two ? If someone can post a picture of how these two work together I would appreciate it.
Questions answered in order
1: Yes--one wire connection to the outer rails
2: Yes. If you're willing to perform a juggling act and pay close attention to what they're doing, you could even run them coupled together*
3: If you buy the Legacy system, technically you don't need to buy anything else, since they only come with the base+remote. The decision is already made for you if you add Legacy.
3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features)
3b I have a photo of my DCS connected to a TMCC base, but I can't access it till later this evening.
---PCJ
3a You can purchase the cable pictured above to link the two together if you want to use the DCS remote to run TMCC or Legacy locomotives (but done this way, you don't have access to the full Legacy feature set--only the extent of TMCC features)
So if I skip the cable. ( I want the Lionel to gain feature MTH doesn't have ) I can run both separately on the same track ? Picture later would be greatly appreciated. Having a hart time visualizing how to wire to the track if its not connected to MTH TIU
If you have no desire for DCS to run your Lionel command engines the above cable is not needed. You can take the 1 wire from the Legacy command base and attach it to the outside rail common or the common output of the DCS TIU. If it's a newer model TIU the commons may need tied together if not done so already.
Porsche1662: Lionel actually has two Legacy versions of NKP 765....and they're both fantastic, IMHO. If you haven't already done so, you may want go to YouTube and watch some of the excellent videos of that loco running. Absolutely tip top, IMHO.
Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.
Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one. They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door.
As to the OP's original question, please allow me to add my two cents:
What I don't think gets mentioned enough or that frequently gets forgotten is that Command Control....whatever flavor you prefer....is simply a tool. It's a tool to operate your model railroad. The trains and the layout are still the focal point...whether you're running conventionally, Lionel, or MTH.
That said, Command Control does open up a whole new world....if you're up for it.
Porsche1662 posted:Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.
Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one. They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door.
Ha...I didn't see that you live in Olmsted Falls. I'm in Avon....and yes...that is Stockyard Express. Great hobby store and great people to be sure.
Perfect ! If I run into issue Ill stop over and pick you up !
Simply put, Command Control regardless of who makes it, let's you experience your layout from entirely different views instead of behind 1 control panel in 1 spot. It also gives you a variety of features, if that's your thing, that conventional running does not. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Different strokes...
Found TMCC to be simpler and more robust; fewer problems getting it to work than with DCS. Always some problem to resolve or "work-around" with DCS.
For me, as with most other responses came down to what kind of engines I wanted. I bought Legacy first as I got into the hobby. I wanted modern diesel engines and MTH has the most to offer, so I have both. It's nice having both systems. There are no limits and each one brings something a different kind of enjoyment.
Both. DCS is my primary because MTH engines work a little better for how I like to operate my layout. The Lionel Legacy engines are the beauty queens though. Looks, low speed control and especially sound have the edge on PS2 and PS3. So the PS2's and PS3's are the workers and the Legacy's are the cruisers. Other considerations are the MTH electrocouplers are better -- Legacy can be very stiff out of the box -- and repair/adjustment. I have taken off and easily replaced the shells on many MTH engines. I tried it once on a Legacy and will never do it again (just too tightly packed). But man! the Legacy lights and sound are just fantastic. And as others have said Legacy is a very easy install on top of DCS.
Porsche1662 posted:Yes, the one that sold me was the review by Ericstrains however the first video you posted looks like my home town shop Stockyard Express. I didn't know they had any Lionel.
Im stopping by there in the morning since Mike Wolf will be there demoing the new wifi app. and I will see if they can get that one. They always have a big smile on their faces when they see me come in the door.
Not all the time. When the Vison Line Big Boy, NKP 765 and Polar Express came out they generated a number of orders many of which were mine. The 765 in the video belongs to me. It's a great locomotive but the smoke unit just went out on it again.
I have both DCS and Lionel Legacy. You do not have to hook the command bases together for them to work on the same layout. All you need to do is run the ground wire from the Lionel base to the track and you are good to go. You only really want to do connect them if you want to run the Lionel engines through the DCS remote. In my opinion it is much easier and more functional to use the Lionel remote for the Lionel Legacy or TMCC locomotives and the DCS remote for all of the MTH locomotives. Now however we will soon just be able to use the apps! Think of the possibilities as the new iPad Pros can run two apps at once!
If you would like more of an overview of the MTH Digital Command System check out this video I produced over a year ago of Mike Wolf giving a presentation about DCS at the York Train Meet.
TrainWizard5972 posted:Not all the time. When the Vison Line Big Boy, NKP 765 and Polar Express came out they generated a number of orders many of which were mine. The 765 in the video belongs to me. It's a great locomotive but the smoke unit just went out on it again.
Hey there!! I actually met you in the store last December or January on a Saturday. You were patient enough to answer some of my basic MTH/DCS questions.
IIRC, didn't you actually scenic one or both of the operating layouts at Stockyard Express?
For me the decision was simple, I had apparently picked up a few TMCC locos that were mis labeled as conventional, lucky me. I had zero DCS locos. So the choice was easy, the lionel system. At the time there was Lionel, Weaver, Atlas and K-line all working off of the same system. MTH remains , I think, a solo act. Since I am in this for the trains not the technology the Lionel system was my choice. If you want both systems and there are advocates of both, prepare to spend up front.
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