Lionel Lionchief Plus 2.0 Hudsons not running in conventional

Do you have a TMCC/Legacy command base ?

If so, make sure it is turned off before trying to run in conventional mode.

No the CW80 is the only thing hooked up to the track. Nothing else is turned on at all or even plugged in.

@Richie C. posted:

Do you have a TMCC/Legacy command base ?

If so, make sure it is turned off before trying to run in conventional mode.

No the CW80 is the only thing hooked up to the track. Nothing else is turned on at all or even plugged in.

Make sure the RUN-PROG switch is in the RUN position. Toggle it back and forth a few times to make sure it's fully "seated" in the RUN position.

I know nothing about Lionchief plus 2.0 but is there a Bluetooth switch that needs to be in the off position?

@romiller49 posted:

I know nothing about Lionchief plus 2.0 but is there a Bluetooth switch that needs to be in the off position?

No, the firmware doesn't care one way or the other if bluetooth is enabled or disabled -regarding conventional mode.

It boots up on power up. It listens using the TMCC radio for a TMCC signal. If it does not see one, it switches to conventional mode. These do not have any form of a conventional mode switch (AKA transformer switch) as seen in the previous Lionchief plus control system. Again, Lionchief Plus 2.0 is the same physical PCB as recent modern Legacy. The difference is what firmware and what sounds they load.

Cannot stress this enough- the fact it boots up with sounds- means it's not seeing a TMCC signal- or else it would have booted up silent.

It's in neutral, awaiting either a connection and forward signal from a bluetooth connection or universal remote, or since it is in conventional awaiting a power drop to signal a change from neutral to forward.

My guess is- this CW80 is leaking some voltage or simply not waiting LONG enough of a power drop to proper switch from neutral to forward.

A previous Lionchief Plus 2.0 related topic regarding direction lock: https://ogrforum.com/...9#159941806831150089

@Vernon Barry posted:

I gotta be honest with you, the problem is, this was meant to be a command control locomotive as are all current Lionchief Plus 2.0. And you'll argue, "but Vern, the Lionel advertising says conventional operation too". The problem is, this series (LC+2.0 VS the previous LC+) no longer has a dedicated switch to tell the firmware to kick into conventional transformer control like the previous Lionchief Plus boards. So each and every time that processor boots when you power up after a power off event, it has to first listen for TMCC RF signal, then decide that is not present, and then decide to listen to conventional voltage. Somewhow, that little "bit" that gets flipped somewhere storing the direction lock is NOT as semi permanent as intended.

All I'm getting at is, my personal opinion is I would not tell buyers to buy a recent Legacy or LC+2.0 engine, with the expectation of it working perfectly 100% on conventional control. Can you run it basic operation under conventional = yes. Will it work as you expect and all features like reverse lockout work flawlessly= no sorry, I think a bit of hit and miss here.

IMO, Lionel has made their newer engines so complicated that there is a lot to go wrong. Sometimes everything works great, but…

i have had good luck with the vast majority of new-production Legacy and LC+ stuff but there are a few snafus here and there. I run Conventional using the modern Lionel CW180 and like it. I did have one FA LC+ set that would not move in Conventional right out of the box, and the dealer swapped it out for another one which ran fine.
I wonder how much longer Lionel will put conventional capability in its offerings.  They removed that option from all their lower-end sets several years ago. Glad I have everything I need by this time!

@Dave Warburton posted:

IMO, Lionel has made their newer engines so complicated that there is a lot to go wrong. Sometimes everything works great, but…

I've had good luck with the vast majority of new-production Legacy and LC+ stuff but there are a few snafus here and there.  I run Conventional using the modern Lionel CW180 & like it.  I had an FA LC+ set that would not move in Conventional right out of the box.  The dealer swapped it for another one which ran fine.  I wonder how much longer Lionel will put conventional capability in its offerings.  They removed that option from all their lower-end sets several years ago.  Glad I have everything I need by this time!

AMEN, Dave.  By moving "forward," Lionel has pretty much removed me from the market for any of their new motive power items.

@Vernon Barry posted:

All I'm getting at is, my personal opinion is I would not tell buyers to buy a recent Legacy or LC+2.0 engine, with the expectation of it working perfectly 100% on conventional control. Can you run it basic operation under conventional = yes. Will it work as you expect and all features like reverse lockout work flawlessly= no sorry, I think a bit of hit and miss here.

Well, I saw this and figured I'd plop my LC+ 2.0 RS3 on the tracks and show you how it's done...

First off, the sounds came up right away, that seems right, no TMCC signal on the tracks.  Hit the direction button, nothing happens except the sound drop out and come right back on!  OOPS!  That's odd, so I hit the horn button, the bell starts to ring!  I hit the bell button, and of course, now I get the horn!

I power cycled everything and this time it runs in conventional, but the horn and bell are still reversed.

I tried one of my 0-6-0T Dockside switchers, and the whistle and bell are correct, that eliminates a reversal of the transformer.   It also took right off and ran in conventional mode as expected.

I think Vernon may be on to something here.

@RadioRon posted:

AMEN, Dave.  By moving "forward," Lionel has pretty much removed me from the market for any of their new motive power items.

Ron,

We need a little help.  If not Lionel, what would you buy, and why?

Mike

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems I'll have to keep it mind these new L/C + 2.0's might not be the best choice for conventional control. I find it interesting also that early this year I had a pair of the new Legacy GP30's that had the same issue. Ran fine with Legacy but would not move in conventional. Sent both back to Lionel and they sent them back saying they didn't find anything wrong. What was funny though is they both worked in conventional when I got them back. Hmm.....

Honestly, it was kind of dumb IMO not to have a conventional/command switch on it rather than auto sensing it the way they do. From a circuit design or hardware it certainly isn't any more complex or likely expensive. Not really surprised, these engines are designed and sold as command control with conventional "thrown in", I doubt they spent a lot of time working or worried about conventional operation.

@bigkid posted:

Honestly, it was kind of dumb IMO not to have a conventional/command switch on it rather than auto sensing it the way they do.

History, TMCC/Legacy never had the switch, and they have no issue deciding when they're in conventional.

It's obviously cheaper, even if not much cheaper, to simply test in software for the mode than to add a switch and wiring.

@bigkid posted:

Honestly, it was kind of dumb IMO not to have a conventional/command switch on it rather than auto sensing it the way they do. From a circuit design or hardware it certainly isn't any more complex or likely expensive. Not really surprised, these engines are designed and sold as command control with conventional "thrown in", I doubt they spent a lot of time working or worried about conventional operation.

I can't agree.  The concept has worked on Lionel's products for nearly 35 years, quite solidly by the way.

What is it about these newest models?

One thing we can say is that attention to detail has been suffering for the last several years, or maybe more.

Mike