Lionel Non-PRR Round roof box cars-are they prototypical?

There have been a couple contentious threads about these cars. If you filter through the chaff there there is some good info ab out the cars

I do believe the N&W is prototypical

https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/11144471743893724

https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/11144471752956255

Neal

The DT&I and N&W both had round roof box cars built before WWII to PRR designs.  These included the PRR X-31C 40 footers.  In the 1960s some of these cars were purchased by a railroad supply firm, refurbished and leased to the NP for lumber service.

The SAL cars were built by Pullman.  They were similar to the PRR cars but had distinctive Pullman ends.

For more in depth discussion of the various prototypes and the Lionel X-31A models check out this thread.

https://ogrforum.com/d...34#11144471785305234

As Well as this thread.  I really like SIRTs weathering job on the NP car.

https://ogrforum.com/d...01#11285375701864001

Close enough for 3 rail.

There are quite a few rivets on this one. LOL!

I was surprised to see this car.

A tooling investment for a car with limited roads is a gamble.

Guess they figured Weavers wagon tops were such a great seller, Lionel jumped into the rare car market as well.

Seems like the much needed combination door cars in 40’ and 50’ would be the smarter choice for a companies sales figures.

Much more longevity in other cars.  

Glad to have one adding interest and variety to the freights!

Before -

After -

There must be some real railfans over at Lionel. To introduce a car used by few railroads is risky, but they usually decorating some in unprototypical paint schemes to amortize their costs. I am happy to see them and as long as they produce some in accurate paint schemes, they can decorate the rest in any crazy way they wish. Who would have thought they would ever release a B&O wagon top caboose. The wagon top is a unique B&O design.

I know my Polar Railroad ("Reliable as the North Star") sure is!!

And mighty pretty, too   

Neal, well from the pictures posted by Ted we know that the NP and SAL are not the same as the PRR.  Note the round roof on the posted pictures show that the roof runs from edge to edge.  The Pennsy design has a stepped in upper sill probably 3 or 4-inches.

I also seem to recall, but am not absolutely sure, a discussion about this relate to the N&W cars and that the Lionel/Pennsy vision did not match up.

I bought this so-called "wagon-top" (?) from 3rdRail, offered by them in this B&O livery. I have no idea if it is proto-typical, but I sure do like it.

Frank

Here's what I see as the most prominent feature of the PRR car and why it won't work for the SAL car:

See the indents where the side and roof meet?  The SAL car doesn't have them.  In addition, the ends are different as well as the number of side panels, and I believe the roof panels are also different.  The SAL roof and sides meet at a smooth transition:

  If Lionel wants to make an accurate SAL car, I'll buy a few (single and double-door).  Seaboard had quite a number of these cars.

They can take the remainder of the run and put whatever other RR/paint scheme they feel on them in order to be profitable.

Moonson
The 3rd rail wagon top is prototypical for a B&O M53 boxcar, but they are missing a vertical rib to the right of the door. The M53 came with different style and sized doors.
The Weaver is an excellent model and less expensive than brass. Also, the MTH Railking round roof boxcar is a fair model of the B&O M15 wagontop but lacks much of the detail

And here's another view of the B&O caboose you mentioned, too, Richard E, which might be of interest, as well...

Wow, thanks for the many informative responses!  I have some of the PRR versions, but want to get one non-PRR verrsion. Probably will look for the DT&I. 

If anyone in interested in having an AAR double door NP box car with a herald there are several Atlas 8714s on the bay right now.

They even have the A.A. Morrison lease stenciling in the upper left corner.  Like the roof of the Lionel car the roof and ends pained black by Atlas represent the application of car cement (think asphalt roof coating) as part of the overhaul process in the 1960s to prevent rain water from leaking onto the lading.

I heard that not many of the DT&I were made.  They will disappear quickly and be hard to find.

Dan

Hi all,

The N&W car is not accurate for the same reason Bob Delbridge mentions on the SAL car. The roof line should come to the edge on the N&W cars. Pennsy had them both ways, some with the roofline inset and some to the edge, but more Pennsy variations could be done with the way Lionel chose. The inset roof is too distinctive Pennsy for me. The alternative for the N&W car is the Chooch kit.

If Mr. Hikel wants to talk about Atlas box car details for the N&W, I'd gladly participate in the discussion.

Here's a round roof boxcar from the Milwaukee Road. As you can see, there are some obvious differences from the Pennsy cars. The brakewheel is on an old-style staff above the roofline and the sides are completely clean with no rivets or lap seams. Nonetheless, I'd probably buy one if Lionel were to paint their Pennsy car to match. 

This car was built in-house at the Milwaukee Shops, and was one of a kind. 

Pennsy had them both ways, some with the roofline inset and some to the edge, but more Pennsy variations could be done with the way Lionel chose.

Christopher

The Lionel model is of an X-31a.  The version with the smooth transition from roof to car side is the X-31c.

The cars that Atlas modeled with their 8714 came from the EL.

SW  Hi

Thanks for posting the photo of the Milwaukee car!